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The Minsiter for Immigration, Liam Bryne, made a Written Statement on 22.02.08 :-
Clearly illegal workers, and those employing them, are going to find life much tougher in the future. But anyone in the UK and working legally has nothing to worry about. John |
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Won't Shut Up |
Isn't that the worrying bit?,I mean what is classed as a skilled worker, and would/will it affect many of our spouses here in the UK? John, I am just asking on behalf of members and their spouses here. I have no clue. I'm there Bryn |
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Bryn, I also thought of that, and have concluded that the statement is badly worded. But I am trying to get an MP to ask a Parliamentary Written Question, to clarify matters.
The fact is that for many persons an employer does not need to seek a Work Permit. Examples are those here on a spouse visa, and indeed those on HSMP, which from Friday will be Tier 1 of the new arrangements. What I think the Statement is trying to cover is those on Work Permits. In future, it seems, employers will not be able to apply for Work Permits unless they are registered, as described in the Statement. John |
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Veteran |
It's an interesting double-whammy - a fine for poor recruitment procedures, which I think could catch a lot out and worse if you knowingly employ an illegal worker.
John, do you know if any guidance has been produced for employers to implement procedures that overcome what Mr Byrne describes as, 'poor recruitment and employment practices' to a level that is acceptable to the BIA/whoever? Thanks Caller |
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Forum Regular |
to be honest i think in order to safeguard against deliberate undercutting of UK wages and exploitation of migrant workers the government needs to look a bit closer to home ie workers from within the EEA eg Poland
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Veteran |
I don't think it's just about undercutting (legal by europeans as long as minimum wage met) or exploitation. I also think it's designed to stop people working here illegally as a result of the same practices that I refered to from Mr. Byrnes statement.
Despite all the publicity of the last few years, a lot of employers simply do not do enough, including Central & Local Govt and many areas of the private sector. I bet the nationals and others are already planning their expose's, probably closer to home than Mr. Byrne would care for. |
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Forum Regular |
hmmmmm it's getting harder to be an employer
 The government can't stop the illegals but are quite happy to raise revenue from anyone that happens to give them a job.Who would be a sitting duck?  Sadly as I need staff it's going to be sub-contractors and agency  Jack |
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Ah yes, but the companies employing them, such as the agency, will have needed to do that checks, so don't think that is a backdoor way of employing illegal workers, not that I am suggesting that you were thinking of doing that.
Definitely, and readily available to employers. Either one document from List 1, or the right combination of two documents from List 2. The legislation on this has been in places for about 2 or 4 years. List 1 documents include, for example, a British passport. By the way, merely by itself, a NI card, or even just an NI number, has never proved the ability to work legally in the UK. John |
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Veteran |
Thanks, I will check that tomorrow although pretty certain at my place they will already be using this. I suppose what it will come down to is what is 'missed' when the checks were made if something comes to light later? I'll look for any steer on that as well.
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Forum Regular |
 perish the thought.No, it's just that the level of admin. has got so high, I have to get back to the business. Someone else doing the checks is a way of freeing up some of my time. I could never justify employing someone to look after staff matters, I always did it myself in the past. But now with the high financial penalties for making a mistake, it's not worth the risk any more Sad really, it's starting not to feel like "my" business anymore, Jack |
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มันฝรั่ง |
Sounds like more "soundbite politics" from a government getting more worried about being re-elected in two years time.
aka Spud |
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I agree with John, Bryn, probably a poorly worded statement. If it were to apply to those in the UK on marriage visas or ILR (for example) then that would be contrary to law and and would give the government a massive headache when it came to the legal challenges that would inevitably follow if it were to apply to such individuals. I expect the law referred to to apply to those who are not here on such visas but those applying, as John suggests, for work permits. However, the employer MUST STILL check that any employee has the right to work in the UK - and that includes those on spousal visas, ILR, student visas etc. Tobias - โทเบียส |
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Jack, it's really not all that difficult to check if an individual has the right to work in the UK. The passport is often all the proof you need to satisfy yourself of an applicant's right to work here. The guidance given by the Government is actually pretty good on this and shows which documents are necessary in List A or List B. The vital part is to carry out these checks before the employment commences and, in the case of List B (i.e. those with time limited leave in the UK), review the status every 12 months. By doing this you will establish a legal 'excuse' to not having to pay any civil penalty. The new rules regarding sponsorship (I've not had chance to read them yet by the way) appear not to affect you as presumably you will not need to employ someone who would be entitled to a work permit?? Tobias - โทเบียส |
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Forum Regular |
Thanks Tobias
The passport would be the way to go, Jack |
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As a matter of course an employer should ask all applicants to bring a passport with them to interview or make any job offer subject to verification of the applicant's status - including British citizens. Photocopy the proof of the right to work in the UK as part of the 'due diligence' procedure. Never accept copy documents, always ensure it is the original passport or birth certificate or whatever.
Tobias - โทเบียส |
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Old Hand |
Is a "get out of jail card" from monopoly acceptable?
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Only Me |
I agree but given the problems of ID theft I refused recently to supply an agency with my passport details which they asked for before submitting my CV. I was happy for them to view the passport but not to keep a copy on file until such a time as I accepted the job. ash We all live under the same sky, but we don’t all have the same horizon.- Konrad Adenauer |
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