Home Page Thailand-UK Community Thailand-UK Forums UK Work UK Work Issues Unemployed must learn English - from the beeb
Thailand-UK Community Thailand-UK Forums UK Work UK Work Issues Unemployed must learn English - from the beebPage 1 2
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Unemployed 'must learn English'
"Job centre About one million unemployed people are claiming benefits Unemployed people who cannot speak English will have to show they are learning the language or face losing their benefits, under government plans. " Almost an intellegent policy wonder if they will have to pay for the courses. ash We all live under the same sky, but we don’t all have the same horizon.- Konrad Adenauer |
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I sniff a 'Human Rights' challenge to this - or even the race card being played.
I can't imagine this proposal will go unchallenged. Tobias - โทเบียส |
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Won't Shut Up |
I think the Welsh might have something to say too . . .
Ian |
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Forum Addict |
Does that mean if you Polish or Hungarian or whatever you can't claim??
This has echos of the "White Australia Policy" that I learnt about at school  -Skippy |
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Forum Addict |
Not quite...I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to speak the language of the country you decide to call home... Especially when you're entitled to all the benefits that country has to offer... (hence the reason why a lot of people are here in the first place)  I know Sweden has had a similar policy for a number of years  I don't hear anyone calling the Swedes a bunch of racists  Nick |
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Forum Addict |
Hang on I haven't called anyone a racist!!
 The basics (the uninformed) regarding the so called White Australia policy was before 1950 ( I think that is the date) if you wished to emmigrate to Australia you had to apss an English test - fair dues you say, But apparently so poor sods were give an English test in say Swedish or Spanish if they came from Asian countries or were French  . For the record we were still a colony at that time.. For the record I would take it (English for Benefits debate) a step further and not allow any new immigrant to claim benefits - for a set period of time at least. IMHO - you should support yourself when you first arrive - Just like I have had to and no doubt members of this forum have had to for their loved ones.. - Skippy |
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Forum Addict |
I stand corrected on some points here is the Wikepedia version of events
opps - It would seem French people were okay  - Basically they gave you an Oral test in any European language they wished ... Not saying it was the right thing to do but its history and it happenned THe final framework of the legistlation wasn't removed until 1973 when the Whitlam govt ( the closest thing Australia has had to a revolution) dismantled it. - Skippy |
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Won't Shut Up |
What reassures me is the certainty that no-one in Thailand UK would dream of living in Thailand without speaking fluent Thai, and the general agreement that Brits should not be allowed to live in Thailand without first passing a Thai language test. Or is that a different situation?
We really are the most hypocritical race in the world - we set up English speaking enclaves across the world from Marbella to Bangkok and beyond, and then demand that visitors learn our lingo before they can live here! As it happens, I am a great believer in learning other languages, but I think I am in a tiny minority in this country where most people can't even speak French. I think people SHOULD learn English if they want to live in the UK, but I also accept that for some this is difficult and they need help, and for some there is really no point / need. Therefore I am against compulsion, which would just end up being a back door control on immigration. A stealth control. As for "immigrants not being entitled to benefits when they arrive" - I thought that was the case already? don't we all have to sign up to "no recourse" clauses and prove it before our partners can come here? The idea of immigrants pouring in and claiming benefits is a right wing myth, and members of this forum should know this better than anyone. The key exception is for other EU countries, where we all share similar rights - i.e. we have the benefit of being able to claim equivalent benefits in their countries. This is a political choice - you either support EU membership, or you don't. Ian |
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Forum Addict |
Ianb - just when you start making sense and we seem to be agreeing on so much... Everyone is getting along and the jovial banter isn't escalating into baiting and mudslinging you go and post this
I am not going to bite or comment except to say - I can't wait to get my British/EU passport finally sorted so I can move to a The Greek Islands or Portugal or Spain and ask for Rent Assistance, Unemployment benefit and free language classes!!! Skippy PS We( you and I ) obviously aren't ever going to agree of some things about the NEW Europe are we??   |
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Are Brits now allowed to 'settle' in Thailand, take up employment and/or claim financial benefits, housing and health care? Tobias - โทเบียส |
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Veteran |
I thought this was about those unemployed and claiming benefits who are non-english speakers?
It's not hard to see why an unemployed non-english speaker finds it harder to get work. I haven't seen all of the details, but I guess provision will be made for funding training via one of the numerous Govt. training agencies? I often wondered how they demonstrated they were actively seeking work, or whether they were exempt? Wonder how it will affect the more recent ec arrivals, who once here for 12 months would otherwise be entitled to benefits? Maybe it is the first step in closing down the benefits system to those from overseas. However, in my experience these bold headlines, perhaps pandering to the general public(?) often have hidden clauses that aren't so freely published - for example, how will the payment of housing benefit be affected, if at all? The tories started altering the unemployment figures in the 80's, maybe this is this govt's reply? Ian, the difference between UK enclaves abroad and those here claiming benefits is obvious - one group, by and large, can afford to be there and don't rely on the state, the other do. Wouldn't happen in Oz, eh skippy! For which I think you have it about right. |
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Forum Addict |
If you look at these "similar rights" in other countries in the EU...they are nothing at all like those in the UK...from healthcare, to housing, to unemployment, to benefits etc etc I good friend of mine has lived in Madrid, for the last 7 or 8 years...A lot of these "rights" are directly proportional to your past income...And what happens if you had no previous income...?  The "right wing myth" that you speak of? Is this the one that still allows people from Kosovo, Albania and various other Balkan states to still live in the UK even though the UN has declared these states "safe" for the past 10 years or so? Far from being the most "hypocritical race in the world"...I think the British people, made up of all various races, are amongst the most tolerant in the world...especially compared to the Thais, Japanese or many other Asian countries. I've yet to see someone in the UK be charged 10 times more for something, simply because of the colour of their skin...  Nick |
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Forum Regular |
Quote from Tobias,
Are Brits now allowed to 'settle' in Thailand, take up employment and/or claim financial benefits, housing and health care? ........................................................................................................................ You took the words right out of my mouth Tobias,  Cheers/Kob Khun, Ron-Tik. |
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Won't Shut Up |
I agree. The Thai immigration controls have no benefit to Thailand and should be eased. What is wrong with British people settling in Thailand for their retirement or to work? And if they choose to do so, should speaking Thai be a condition. And as for Nick and his mythical kosovans, I presume we are on the assylum seeker myth here? Do a little google, will ya, to see what benefits assylum seekers or even succesful claimants are entitled to? And caller:
Lovely jubbly. The very definition of prejudice = ignorant judgement of whole groups of people. do you really think that all Brits aborad never need welfare services? Hundreds of thousands of Brits benefit from spanish welfare, which in many ways is generous. In contrast, is it really true that immigrants "do" rely on the welfare state? Not the ones I know. Or maybe you are insulting Thai women here? Are you saying that Thai women depend on the welfare state? Lets face it, for many of us the only immigrant group we know much about is Thai women, and on thw whole I think they do well - even the ones who don't speak English very well! My view is this: if poor English is holding back, help them to learn English. Don't starve them and their children into it. Ian |
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Forum Regular |
unfortunately, people in the uk have been killed simply because of the colour of their skin. ian.  |
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Forum Addict |
Or their religion or politics... http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/04/asia/AS_GEN_T...outhern_Violence.php Take off the thai "rose-tinted glasses"... Nick |
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Forum Regular |
people who are claiming unemployment benefit often do need help to find a job. the prospect of withdrawal of unemployment benefit would serve a useful purpose by kickstarting the process of learning english (or welsh, if the claimant lives in a welsh-speaking area). ian. |
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Forum Addict |
Mate I was in Pale in 1998 when the UN were about bomb it...I have a little knowledge of the region  Nick |
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Forum Addict |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/brits_abroad/html/default.stm So of the 761,000 Brits who live in Spain, "hundreds of thousands" recieve some sort of benefit? Really? Do a "google"  Nick |
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Won't Shut Up |
Sorry to divert from the subject but:
PriorityPress, I've sent you a PM, can you answer. Thanks |
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Forum Addict |
Replied.
Nick |
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Won't Shut Up |
simple solution is no work legally = no benefits when on hard times "no if's no buts its a crime" says the tax paying citizen!
 colin 244 |
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Forum Regular |
Quote, Unfortunately, people in the uk have been killed simply because of the colour of their skin.
........................................................................................................................ I take it you are referring to the white people being killed???  Cheers/Kob Khun, Ron-Tik. |
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Won't Shut Up |
Interesting facts: "The most recent analysis shows that in 2004, 87,000 people from black or minority ethnic communities (BME) said they had been a victim of a racially motivated crime. In the same period, 92,000 white people said they had also fallen victim. Focusing on violent racial attacks, 49,000 BME were victims. Among whites, the number was 77,000." It's true, most racist attacks in Britain are carried out against white people. Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6128466.stm Marcus |
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