Dear members,

I'm considering the risks of buying a house in Bangkok with my spouse. Currently I have a marriage agreement that states if we separate/divorce we will split 50/50 what assets we have acquired from the date we were married.

As I see it the house will be owned by my wife and fully in her name but we have agreed that we would pay for the house 50/50. Does anyone know if a contract stating 50/50 split of the sale value of the property, in the event of divorce, will, or can, be enforced?

Spook

quote:

Originally posted by Spook:
... Currently I have a marriage agreement that states if we separate/divorce we will split 50/50 what assets we have acquired from the date we were married...

... Does anyone know if a contract stating 50/50 split of the sale value of the property, in the event of divorce, will, or can, be enforced?

Minefield! It all depends where you get divorced. Under Thai law the 50/50 rule applies in any event - but you will have already surrendered any right that you would otherwise have held in real property in Thailand.

Whilst a UK court may take in to account the Thai property, it would not necessarily accept the validity of any prenuptial agreement. There are also technical difficulties relating to the previous surrender of any rights in the land.

You need to seek independent legal advice from a suitably qualified family law solicitor who no doubt will seek an opinion from a Thai qualified lawyer experienced in such matters.

So what you're saying is;

Provided my marriage is kept, as it is now, strictly Thai with no UK ceremony or integration then all my UK assets, pre-marriage, are safe, but any newly acquired Thai assets, associated with land, are not?

I have spoken to a very close Thai friend who is a Lawyer. He says that provided a "Thai" contract is put in place agreeing to sell the land/house, in the event of divorce, then that can be enforced. And, provided I can show bank records proving I paid 50%, then I would be in a good position to recover the money I put in, or, 50% of its value at time of selling. I might have a job selling this to the other half!!

I have no experience, or access, to any cases that have been won or lost and are similar to this. I thought about the Condo route but this doesn't suit my circumstances.

Trust isn't something that I've come to settle for but it looks like if things fail then I'll have to put it down to experience? Bearing in mind that it isn't the money, rather, the principle!!

Does anyone one know of any written guidelines that should be followed when thinking of buying a house in LOS?

quote:

Originally posted by Spook:
So what you're saying is;

Provided my marriage is kept, as it is now, strictly Thai with no UK ceremony or integration then all my UK assets, pre-marriage, are safe, but any newly acquired Thai assets, associated with land, are not?

Not necessarily. Obtaining specific specialist advice is clearly appropriate here. There are technical issues to be considered, conflicts of laws (both UK and Thai), the enforceability (or otherwise) of 'your' prenuptial agreement, the ability of your wife to petition the UK courts for a financial order notwithstanding a "Thai divorce" and the prenup - there is a great deal to be considered.

It doesn't matter where you were married, you are legally married as far as the UK is concerned. And should you or your wife commence divorce proceedings in the UK then more complications arise - whether or not there is a UK marriage ceremony or if the marriage was registered at the Embassy.

Given the sums involved and the many legal implications, specific expert advice is well worth the money.

I'll be arranging a meeting with my Thai Lawyer again in the next 2 weeks and get him to look into this a little deeper, now that I'm "Slightly" more interested.

When I have more information I'll re-post so that others can use this information if needed.

I am very sure that the Land the house sits on will be in my wifes name and the house can be in both our names. The problem, in my "Very Basic" understanding, is that both parties need to agree to sell and split the proceeds 50/50!!

Does anyone feel it's worth talking to a Lawyer in the UK? Or, would their understanding of Thai Law be too basic?

quote:

Does anyone feel it's worth talking to a Lawyer in the UK?

Spook,

You may not realise, but you just have (and a highly credited one at that) and the advice is in the post above yours.

I think it is global law that you should be more interested in, i.e. the place and time you get divorced that will decide how much you will be screwed for if you do divorce

P.S. I think they prefer the title of Solicitor or Barrister here as they are not quite up to the USA Lawyer fees

P.P.S. You could always rent in Bangkok before eventually buying, will let you spec out the area first and then be in a good base to place offers on purchases

Get specific advice. There are solicitors in UK with knowledge of thai law and/or the ability to access it.
www.clsdirect.org.uk

Ensure your thai friend/lawyer is qualified to advise too-what knowledge does he/she have of English Law and the court process.

As m'learned friend has indicated above,it is a pretty complex area. Your pre-nuptial agreement is virtually meaningless in an English court.

Your agreement says 50/50 split. When? It apparantly says on divorce.Separation? Children? Deferrment of sale to allow completion of children's minority? Provision for contact with children? Any estate in UK? Those assets subject to agreement? Mortgage finance? Made a Will?
You cannot prevent your wife from petitioning in a court in England,which includes a claim for maintainence from you.

Get some advice,but up to you....

Bloody Lawyers, you wait all day for one and then two come along at once

Ive no idea of the "legal aspect" part sorry.However,seeing as how you are thinking long term, if you arent too sure about the legal ramifications , maybe why not spend "X" amount of money? ("X") being what you can afford, IF!!!!!! the worst scenario came , and you lost the house?
ps. I have a house in Thailand, I "signed" for this house wit my wife, allegedly!!!!!! the house is 50% mine? BUT. in the event anything happens to us (not thst I want it to! or think it will!) BUT! T.I.T.! ........so, IF!!!!!! anything does happen, Im prepared to lose the house anyway?
Now , some may say, this is a silly way to think? , but everybody is different! I have been to Thailand long enough , to know anything can,, (and normally does!) happen!

Keith

colin 244

quote:

ps. I have a house in Thailand, I "signed" for this house wit my wife, allegedly!!!!!! the house is 50% mine?

Daney, as a matter of interest, what exactly did you sign? When we purchased our house, it was made quite clear by the land registry clerk that the sole proprietary rights in the property are vested in my wife.
You're quite right, that the only practical attitude to buying property in Thailand is that if it comes to the worst you have to be prepared to walk away from it.

My wife and I have a verbal agreement.....

If we divorce then I simply bulldoze my half of the house we built! It’s a lot easier, cheaper and probably more satisfying. We don’t intend getting divorced in the foreseeable future!

Ian,

Be much more fun borrowing a tank from the plains and using that, not sure if import duty would cause problems though

I'm glad to see all you guys don't mince your words!!

As it stands;

1. I'm getting divorced, allegedly!
2. The house I'm going to buy 50/50 with my wife won't be 50/50, rather, all hers!
3. The house I will have bought will be bull-dozed by someone when we divorce. Only verbally though!!
4. Have i missed anything?

Oh!!

And, I forgot to mention, have you noticed? Only another 11 more posts and I'm over the Ton!!

Spook,

There is a saying "how to make a small fortune in Thailand"

Answer "invest a big one"

However IMHO everything in LOS belongs to the Thai despite arrangements with companies or pre nuptials etc!

As for me I am married to a lovely Thai lady and we have bought a house and a farm in the north (Phitsanulok)which if it ever goes wrong will be hers but strangely I accept this as part of our relationship!

Good luck in what you do!
Regards
colin 244

Colin 244,

Contrary to popular belief, I'm a 49% share holder of an Export Business in Bangkok that actually makes a profit, after my initial investment and after the first year that was!!

Back to above subject;
After having a meeting with a UK Solicitor they advise, "In Their Opinion", that any Thai court decision, about property/land in Thailand, would take precedent over any UK court. Agreements, concerning ownership of Thai property, made in UK are useless, but one's made in Thailand are more readily enforced, provided we reside in Thailand. The important point made was that the contract should state that the property must be sold by an independent party in the event of Separation not Divorce and the proceeds divided 50/50. The property, either land or house, will never be mine but I should show money transfers to the Real Estate Company, or Builder, which would prove my money was used to buy the house.

I believe the important factor here will be the hiring of a reputable Thai Lawyer. After that hold on and hope the contract doesn't get tested!!

Daney, my way of thinking as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Spook:
I believe the important factor here will be the hiring of a reputable Thai Lawyer. After that hold on and hope the contract doesn't get tested!!

Good luck on both of those, the first one is a mythical creature. and that would cast a shadow of doubt on the second.

Spook,

I echo Thad but as they say "up to you"

On another point where in North LOS does your other half hail from? purely out of interest in members/partners locations
colin 244

colin244,

The Mrs is from Korat, which I suppose is approaching North Thailand. It just went well with the Northern Ireland.

We're renting at the moment but plan to get house later this year on the outskirts of BKK.

Thanks, to all, for all the advice on this one. Just to let you know, the Lawyer I will be using is the same one who has help me set up my business in BKK. Whilst I still only trust him about 5% it's better than getting some new guy who doesn't know me.

Have you noticed?? This is my 100th post. I'll be getting good at this soon.

Hi Spook.

Just to be picky, Sukhothai, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai are all in Northern Thailand. Khorat, on the other hand, is in the southernmost part of North East Thailand. Nakhon Ratchasima is often referred to as the "Gateway to Isaan" and is a fair old distance from "Northern Thailand".

End of pathetic geography lesson.

Glad you put that in Paul!! Now I'm up to 101 posts!

Like I said, "Not quite Northern Thailand" and I wouldn't lie to anyone and say Chiang Mai!!

quote:

Originally posted by maokaang:
Khorat, on the other hand, is in the southernmost part of North East Thailand. Nakhon Ratchasima is often referred to as the "Gateway to Isaan" and is a fair old distance from "Northern Thailand".

I always thought Khorat was pushing it a bit with that 'North East' claim! Pretty central really, innit? It's like people referring to Matlock as 'The North'!

Spook,

Not quite as North as us then in Phitsanulok but there again you intend living in Bangkok not Khorat

Anyway we intend living in Chiang Mai in the future when I cash in on the forthcoming Management Buy Out of my current employer so will be an expat then too (roll on)
colin 244