The latest news from my wife’s family in Sakon Nakon is that the new regime in Thailand is hitting the local villagers very hard. Money borrowed under Thaskin’s loans system has to be paid back by October. Many families owe Bt20,000 and are presently sitting around crying and in shock as the new rulers have told them if payment is not met, people will be arrested and assets taken.

For what ever reason this coup took place, my belief was that it well suited the wealthy of the South and the people of Issan would be the ones to suffers.

Have any other members heard this news and maybe more?

It would really surprise me if this is true - I cannot think of a better way to widen the divisions in Thai society.

Is there any chance that this could be anti coup propaganda from pro Thaksin sympathisers?

Ian

quote:

Is there any chance that this could be anti coup propaganda from pro Thaksin sympathisers?

.. or some dodgy local government officials trying to cash in on the coup?

quote:

Originally posted by STA:
For what ever reason this coup took place, my belief was that it well suited the wealthy of the South and the people of Issan would be the ones to suffers.

It is not just Issan it is all Thai rural communities who will suffer.

As to the claim itself of repaying loans, I think I will wait until it is verified.

It would not be surprising if the coup-leaders are doing this.

People supporting the coup are the wealthy Bangkok middle-classes who seem to have hated Thaksin mostly because of his economic policies which gave more than they ever wanted to give towards developing the rural economies.

If this oppression is to hit Isarn - the coup-leaders probably feel confident that any armed backlash from this impoverished people will not happen. It will just be business as usual with Isarn being exploited and oppressed by the well-off of Bangkok. Reading Pira Sudham's books give an insight into the nature of this oppression and how Isarn people have lived with it before - seems like they will have to live with it again.

I dont believe that and the missus just got off the phone with the family and they have heard nothing like that at all.

Henson,

I think you are well wide of the mark here!

quote:

People supporting the coup are the wealthy Bangkok middle-classes who seem to have hated Thaksin mostly because of his economic policies which gave more than they ever wanted to give towards developing the rural economies.

If this oppression is to hit Isarn - the coup-leaders probably feel confident that any armed backlash from this impoverished people will not happen. It will just be business as usual with Isarn being exploited and oppressed by the well-off of Bangkok. Reading Pira Sudham's books give an insight into the nature of this oppression and how Isarn people have lived with it before - seems like they will have to live with it again.

What is the evidence that middle classes in Bangkok support the coup? From my experience, what they want is a democreatic and non corrupt government. it was the middle classes who faced down the 1991 coup by taking to the streets, and in many cases losing their lives.

In contrast, the military has always been very careful to build support in Isaan. For instance, the Isaaan Keow (green Isaan) campaign of the late 80s where the military pumpred millions into irrigation in the region. Don't forget the military are utterly dependent on conscription of young men, mainly from Isaan.

Thaksin did nothing to supprt Isaan or the poor. He made billions of Baht from corrput businesses. Where has that money come from? How much does your family and every family pay in Thailand towards Shin Corp and Shin family profits?

Other posters have probably got closer to the mark: this is not poor Thais versus middle class Thais, but a battle between two Thai / Chinese elites - the military / aristocracy who have controlled Thailand for 70 years, and the billionaire elite who are newer and have different objectives.

Where we probably both agree, is that neither group gives a damn for Isaan except as a source of votes, conscripts, and cheap labour.

Ian

Henson

I detect a slight chip on your shoulder...



Nick

quote:

I dont believe that and the missus just got off the phone with the family and they have heard nothing like that at all.

Thanks for the update Siam Steve, unfortunately Thai’s are not privileged to the same freedom of information and independent media corporations that we take for granted in the UK, instead they rely on the “grape vine” and facts can become distorted.

quote:

He also dismissed rumours the CDRM was planning to scrap two other Thaksin projects - the National Fund for Villages and Urban Communities and the Small, Medium and Large Fund.

The Nation

quote:

Originally posted by IanB:
Other posters have probably got closer to the mark: this is not poor Thais versus middle class Thais, but a battle between two Thai / Chinese elites - the military / aristocracy who have controlled Thailand for 70 years, and the billionaire elite who are newer and have different objectives.
Ian

I have actually said the same in some previous posts. I definitely do not believe that Thaksin was conscientious about improving the lot of the Isarn people. He was a populist but also a moderniser, an internationalist. He tried to develop the rural economies by encouraging industrailisation of the countryside. His opponents are the traditionalists. From what I know Thaksin's policies, whether he intended to or not, would have benefited Isarn more than the traditional Bangkok elite who apparently do not think economic development for Isarn is a good idea. (see link in other thread, Quiet coup). Thaksin probably believed in brutal capitalist dogma but whatever you think of that it does not seem to take any regard of traditional elites or privileges.
I still think the middle classes resented his economic policies and redistribution towards Isarn. You mention the Middle classes actions against the military in 1991, but that is long time ago. Things change. The Middle classes have realised that the consequences of democracy is a Thaksin and their increased prosperity over the 90s decade probably makes them think with their wallets.

Prioritypress - I do not have a chip on my shoulder just saying things the way I see them. By the way, my wife totally disagrees with me on this!

I'm sure she would...Isn't she from Isaan?

I'm not saying that the people from that part of Thailand aren't hard done by...but there are plenty of "poor" people in other parts of Thailand too...

Just walk around the streets of Bankok...

I just think you've been reading to many Marxist Historians...


Nick

quote:

Originally posted by prioritypress:
I'm sure she would...Isn't she from Isaan?

Nick

Meaning????

quote:

Originally posted by prioritypress:
I just think you've been reading to many Marxist Historians...


Nick

Nope, but I have been reading - Over the Summer I read Pira Sudham's Monsoon Country, Tales from Thailand and People of Esarn. Although he is a biased author his stories are very poignant and to me they seem to be verified by the realities I have seen so far.

I would tend to listen to Mam a bit more Henson if I were you. It'll pay off in the long run.

quote:

Posted 25 September 2006 16:45

quote:

Thanks for the update Siam Steve, unfortunately Thai’s are not privileged to the same freedom of information and independent media corporations that we take for granted in the UK, instead they rely on the “grape vine” and facts can become distorted.

I beg to Differ STA I know plenty of Thai's who have internet connections even in the village where my missus is from. I believe we all at times take the lovely Issan peoples good nature as being somewhat backward but if you scratch the surface you will find they understand more than most including the middle class of Bangkok believe that they understand. Isaan people endure and one day with 22 million people an Isaan person is going to rule Thailand.

Henson

Have you never considered living in Isaan, I think you will learn a lot more than reading in a book about thai people and Isaan peoples struggle

Not a bad idea for you to give that a try Henson.

Live there for a few months, they are the heart and soul of Thailand. If they stopped working the country would soon fall apart and the middle classes, upper classes would be left not knowing what to do..

quote:

I still think the middle classes resented his economic policies and redistribution towards Isarn.

Honest question, in what way was there redistribution towards isarn? I know about the hospital scheme (and that can be poor), but I thought that what was everywhere? What else was there - it doesn't seem to have benefited my wifes family much! I appreciate its a big place and I only know a small bit of it.

quote:

Originally posted by caller:

quote:

I still think the middle classes resented his economic policies and redistribution towards Isarn.

Honest question, in what way was there redistribution towards isarn? I know about the hospital scheme (and that can be poor), but I thought that what was everywhere? What else was there - it doesn't seem to have benefited my wifes family much! I appreciate its a big place and I only know a small bit of it.

From The Quiet Coup

quote:

In recent days, Thaksin's critics have begun to cast his ambitions to create export-driven industries in the countryside as a threat to traditional Thai society. Thaksin's moves "challenged the king and [Thailand's] established order," says Thitinan. "We're not being true to ourselves if we see it any other way."

a very simple way of looking at it is

give the issarn people money (loans)

they go off buy mobiles and make lots of calls and texts

and where does the money go to?

well his family (really him) own the most popular mobile phone network in thailand.

have you noticed that the most reliable network in rural parts of issarn is AIS or at least in sakhon nakhon it is.


silly comment - i know

quote:

quote:
In recent days, Thaksin's critics have begun to cast his ambitions to create export-driven industries in the countryside as a threat to traditional Thai society. Thaksin's moves "challenged the king and [Thailand's] established order," says Thitinan. "We're not being true to ourselves if we see it any other way."

Thanks Henson - and good to see you back by the way - but "ambitions" is a long way from delivering!

Has any redistribution actually taken place?

quote:

Originally posted by Siam Steve:

quote:

Posted 25 September 2006 16:45quote:
Thanks for the update Siam Steve, unfortunately Thai’s are not privileged to the same freedom of information and independent media corporations that we take for granted in the UK, instead they rely on the “grape vine” and facts can become distorted.

I beg to Differ STA I know plenty of Thai's who have internet connections even in the village where my missus is from. I believe we all at times take the lovely Issan peoples good nature as being somewhat backward but if you scratch the surface you will find they understand more than most including the middle class of Bangkok believe that they understand. Isaan people endure and one day with 22 million people an Isaan person is going to rule Thailand.

You got to be taking the pisces with that post Steve I can just imagine the folks in my wife's village off to the rice paddies in their tractors packing a laptop under their arms.

Have you seen Thai TV news? Its about 2 minutes long and on once a day at 6pm. TV and radio are controlled by the army or the government. Newspapers are virtually non-existent in rural areas and no one listens to radio. As to internet forget it! Have you seen the loud speaker system set up in towns and villages?? That so the local village boss can tell them the news

So far I have only mentioned media access. With this Military Junta in power and Thailand now under martial law news is regulated and censored....

See also Bt30 healthcare, Village fund to stay: CDRM

quote:

Bt30 healthcare, Village fund to stay: CDRM

Viable policies introduced under the ousted Thaksin-Shinawatra government will not be scrapped, military rulers say.

Rumours programmes like the Bt30 universal health-care scheme would be abolished were false, a spokesperson for the Council for Democratic Reform under the Constitutional Monarchy (CDRM) said Monday.

Yongyuth Maiyalarb told the public to reject unconfirmed reports and trust only CDRM announcements.

A hotline at 02-280-2360 had been established for public inquiries, suggestions for social problems and tips on corruption.

He also dismissed rumours the CDRM was planning to scrap two other Thaksin projects - the Bt1 million Village Fund and Urban Communities and the Small, Medium and Large Fund.

The Nation

quote:

Originally posted by Siam Steve:
Henson

Have you never considered living in Isaan, I think you will learn a lot more than reading in a book about thai people and Isaan peoples struggle

My wife's family originates from Isarn and now live in a village near Sukhothai. The local compounds around her house all seem to be inhabitated by people who had to emigrate from isarn so my 3 stays there must be quite similar to staying in an Isarn village.

I am sorry but I am still at the stage of my life where I am paying off student loans and other debts. If I chose to live in a village for 1 year - either sleeping in a hammock or earning pennies from teaching in a local school - I would be totally irresponsible (and my wife would hate me for it.)

Those members who reprimand me for reading books instead of living in Isarn like they apparently have done seem to think this is a strong argument against what I have said about Isarn without actuall