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Could it be the same as the BNP getting in here in the UK?

The Thais have got a very good immigration policy against anyone Thai, but this could be a step too far.

The political unrest and lack of drive to move towards any democratically elected Government makes the prospect of purchasing propery or initiating a businness within Thailand for Westerners less of a desirable propersition day by day.

Politically there seems to be an increasing move to nationalism. However, this was always going to be the case after any military coo.

What will be very interesting to observe in the coming months is what will start to happen politically to fill the void that the coo has left behind it. Also how will the everyday thai person respond to this?

I personally feel that we have only just seen the begining of what seems to be policies that are anti westerners. Some will say that these policies were always there, its just that the Government are enforcing them, for example immigration laws. The question we should be asking why now?

I have faith in the majority of Thai people to still be welcoming to westerners however, unless Thailand restores democracy they have no voice.

Kind regards

Andy

quote:

That mood is evident in a 12th-floor conference room at the headquarters of Bangkok Bank, where Vongthip Chumpani, an adviser and former vice president at the bank, expresses her frustrations about certain types of foreigners who come to Thailand — and tend to stay.

"We are getting a lot of weird retirees here," Vongthip said. "They can't survive in your country so they come here." ...

Feeling the strain of the tourist influx, the Thai government recently announced a new approach: the country would no longer focus on the quantity of tourists, but instead target "quality" — read "wealthy" — tourists.

If you have money you will always be welcome in Thailand. What they don't like is poor farangs subsisting in Thailand. Unfortunately most of the British residents in Thailand probably don't have the level of wealth to guarantee long-term residence in Thailand.

I also think that they welcome nature of Thais has been grossly abused by many foreigners. the amount of "scum" (no other word for them) residing in and visiting Thailand is obviously very high.

I've certainly noticed a big change in the demographics of people who visit Thailand in the last 5-10 years. A lot these days have no respect for anything Thai.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
If you have money you will always be welcome in Thailand. What they don't like is poor farangs subsisting in Thailand. Unfortunately most of the British residents in Thailand probably don't have the level of wealth to guarantee long-term residence in Thailand.

True. And as someone employed in Thailand it's all very strange. On the one hand I have a great job with heaps of status, but outside of work my salary is far too low too be welcomed by the Thai government!

So I'm seeing the visa and work-permit rules getting tougher and tougher to the point that the woman whose job it is at work to help me sort it all out openly admits that she can't keep up with the changes.

The university wants me here. The immigration office doesn't!

quote:

Originally posted by SteveR:
I also think that they welcome nature of Thais has been grossly abused by many foreigners. the amount of "scum" (no other word for them) residing in and visiting Thailand is obviously very high.

I've certainly noticed a big change in the demographics of people who visit Thailand in the last 5-10 years. A lot these days have no respect for anything Thai.

Totally agree. But aren't most of the 'scum' in Thailand on 30-day visas? How would the Thai government be able to dissuade such people from coming?

quote:

How would the Thai government be able to dissuade such people from coming?

Radicule idea: tell them they have to marry a thai girl, then tell the costs of her shopping/ wedding / house and oh yeah the visa fee's in the UK.

quote:

But aren't most of the 'scum' in Thailand on 30-day visas?

Some might argue that a lot of the scum in Thailand has floated to the top in the military and the elite - the people who really make the money out of drugs, massage parlours, Pattaya, etc..

Ian

quote:

But aren't most of the 'scum' in Thailand on 30-day visas?

I normally use just a 30 day visa Marcus!

quote:

Originally posted by Casey Jones:

quote:

But aren't most of the 'scum' in Thailand on 30-day visas?

I normally use just a 30 day visa Marcus!

Oh yes, I see I could have phrased that a little better!

quote:

Unfortunately most of the British residents in Thailand probably don't have the level of wealth to guarantee long-term residence in Thailand

That's a bit of a sweeping statement. I assume you are talking about pensioners or people married to Thai spouses as other options are for workers or visitors. All you need for ongoing residence is a lump sum of around £13,000 for single people, half that for married couples plus your ongoing living expenses.

The Thais might want rich foreigners, but once you are there the living costs don't change.

BigRed

quote:

Originally posted by Andy22:
I personally feel that we have only just seen the begining of what seems to be policies that are anti westerners.

andy22, there is nothing in the foreign business act that is specifically anti-westerner. the nationalist sentiment behind it was, in fact, originally precipitated by the sale of a major company to easterners.

ianb, unless i'm mistaken, the new legislation makes no reference to immigration. how is it similar to bnp policy?

ian.

quote:

ianb, unless i'm mistaken, the new legislation makes no reference to immigration. how is it similar to bnp policy?

Ian, it's IanB-UK here , you've got me there, I don't know BNP policy or the new Thai legislation. I was just assuming and thinking that to me it seems that Thailand's new government are getting more insular and the BNP would be similar here, obviously just a gut feel based on misinformation and what I have incorrectly read between the lines. I should have done more research

Hope my feelings and thoughts are wrong and that I will be accepted with open arms.

I have been living here for a year now and this issue is a real mixed bag from what I can see. The politics do not represent the opinions or attitudes of Thai people in general. I find the majority extremely welcoming and genuine. Like it or not, there is an element of foreign tourists and ex-pats that do let the side down mainly with their attitudes and delusions of grandeur. These are a minority but they do stick out unfortunately.

Thai's are very proud people and who can blame them but this should not be mistaken with racism. The same misinterpretations have been made at some levels in the UK (Christmas carols, flag waving etc) and this has driven people towards thugs like the BNP and other fascist factions.

I think it IS anti western. When I lived in Thailand the country was just coming out of a period of being anti chinese. This was a reaction to the Vietnam war but also to the increasing dominance of chinese people in Thailand.

The history is complicated, and I do not pretend to be an expert, but Thailand coped by requiring chinese people to "become Thai" - speaking Thai, eating Thai food, taking Thai names, and behaving like Thais. I think this option is barely open to westerners.

The irony is that fist or second generation chinese now completely control Thailand, particularly business and crime, but the Thais rarely seem to notice.

All of these are things which are important to upper class Thais, whereas at the village level Thais are much more acepting and open. Part of this must by rich Thais / chinese trying to protect their assets, but the irony is that isolation could be Thailand's downfall.

Ian

Past policy may be true but in the society that I live in and work within I cannot agree. They are not anti-western but respect values such as our own. When we go to Thailand and don't show any of these values they rightly show a dislike. I work in Chonburi which is an affluent area and full of Chinese Thai's. They are reserved compared with Thai's from the North and North east but they are still very friendly and accepting people once they gain the confidence to speak with you.

There is a huge difference between the Thais you meet every day, who are generally delightful, open, friendly, and generous, and the elites who control Thai society. I do not intend any criticism of ordinary Thai people whatever their background.

Ian

quote:

I think it IS anti western.

But what is so wrong with that? Implicit in that statement is that somehow Western values are better. The West has a history of imposing and eventually overwhelming the 'less fortunate' countries that have not had the 'benefit' of Western values. Once lost these values are gone forever.

It is right, in my view, that Thailand, or any other country, should consider very carefully the impact embracing the West has on its culture. However clumsy the measures taken are, (closing bars at 1.00a.m., changing the visa run rules, etc.), I applaud the Thai government for realising the issue and trying to do something about it.

It is impossible for Thailand to be isolated from globalisation; any attempt for the country to do this, however self sufficient it could be, is doomed to failure. Even if the Thais were willing to forgo some of the Western luxuries deemed compulsory these days, the West would ensure Thailand would become as isolated as North Korea. Comply or be deemed an enemy of the West.

Singapore had similar problems. The government tries to cherry pick from the West but is coming in for increasing criticism for its seemingly undemocratic measures and Singaporeans, well the young ones anyway, keep voting with their feet and going to the West. Singapore becomes more Western every day, (a move to have all signposts written in Chinese as well as English was rejected; however artificial this move was I think its motivation was honest).

I would hate to see Thailand go this way. I would hate to see Christianity in any form replace Buddhism, (just look at the pressure put on China and Vietnam to have Christian churches), to see a benevolent society be replaced with one whose only motivation is greed, to see the family values eroded to the point it has in Britain, to see a country's people become selfish and self-serving. where stepping on someone is seen as a shrewd career move and something to be applauded.

But I also don't want to see the poor scratching a living, or beggars on the streets. It is a difficult path to tread.

What I am sure of though, is that a few bleating farangs complaining that they can't buy beer on such and such a day, or that their illegal businesses are being closed down, or that retirees that contribute nothing to the society and are in Thailand to avoid paying the Western ex-wife's and children's maintainence; should not be allowed to influence the outcome.

Agree completely, Dan.
However

quote:

Originally posted by dan&ploy:
What I am sure of though, is that a few bleating farangs complaining that they can't buy beer on such and such a day, or that their illegal businesses are being closed down, or that retirees that contribute nothing to the society and are in Thailand to avoid paying the Western ex-wife's and children's maintainence; should be allowed to influence the outcome.

Shouldn't that be "should not be allowed to influence the outcome."?

I have to admit to a certain amount of schadenfreud (sp?), as it was mostly the above group who applauded the coup for getting rid of Taksin!

(sorry for the double post; I hit the 'quote' button instead of the 'edit' one!

quote:

Shouldn't that be "should not be allowed to influence the outcome."?

Ooops.

Well spotted Nick. Too late to edit now.

quote:

Originally posted by IanB-UK:
Hope my feelings and thoughts are wrong and that I will be accepted with open arms.

i'm sure u will be by most thais. as the other ianb says, there can be a big difference between the views of the ordinary thai and the government.

ian.

quote:

Originally posted by IanB:
I think it IS anti western.

The irony is that fist or second generation chinese now completely control Thailand, particularly business and crime, but the Thais rarely seem to notice.

i am not seeing how the foreign business act is anti-western in particular.

the thais noticed very much when mr thaksin appeared to be becoming too friendly with his ethnic chinese cousins in singapore.

ian.

quote:

Originally posted by dan&ploy:
just look at the pressure put on China and Vietnam to have Christian churches

i'm unsure about vietnam (though i think that it has a large number of christians), but mainland china does have a catholic christian church. the chinese catholic church does not recognise the pope and is allowed to function normally.

the roman catholic church is banned from activities in mainland china, as members are regarded as having their primary allegiance to a foreign leader instead of to the chinese state.

ian.