PDA

View Full Version : Refused visa flr m



Smidge
12th Aug 2012, 21:09
Please help. We where refused the visa because we didn't have the right paper work. Under the new laws. No where on the uk border web site told us what documents we needed only guidance notes. We wento Croydon from Devon 20 miles. And wated 5-1/2 hours. For them to tell us sorry sir the visa has been refused. Within 10 mins of being in the building they toke my money with out checking the paper work. 864 pounds. After the 5 hour wait we where asked to leave after I was complaing now my wife has to go back o Thailand . Is there anything I can doo.

Regards ash
sorry my spelling is crap

KhunIanB-UK
12th Aug 2012, 21:30
What paperwork did they say was incorrect? You should post the full refusal letter with personally identifiable information removed and then people will be able to advise properly, without that, impossible to say I'm afraid. Also please can you state clearly which visa is already held, which was applied for and how much time is left on the already held visa?

Smidge
12th Aug 2012, 22:20
Ok sorry I'm not very good at reading and writing. The paper work which was missing was proff of paying tax . My last tax returns. And real prove I earn 18600. Even though my back statements show 26 k. I'm self employed. We are on a fiancée visa. Which runs out on the 15th sep 20212. When we down loaded the new flr(m) form we also down loaded the new guidance note but there was nothing to say all the documents we needed. They never stamped her passport I got all the paper work back before they could. I thought this wouldn't look good on her passport. I just feel total robbed. And to top it the lady who delt with us admitted not knowing what she was doing under the new laws. We booked to go back to Thailand on the 18th sep.. For a holiday hence why I got her passport back. And now she will be staying in Thailand.we don't have much money at the mo since we payed for the visa and holiday. So can't afford to do spouse visa from thailand. Think what I'd like to try find out is there anything I can do about being very much misled by the ukba. And it's ❇❇❇❇ web site. Many thanks ash one more thing do I need 18600. In the bank now.

KhunIanB-UK
12th Aug 2012, 23:08
Have you got the tax returns that prove you earn more than £18,600?

Smidge
12th Aug 2012, 23:15
Not yet not from the inland revenue that is . I've got all the paperwork from my accountant. For accounts ending April 2012.' this shows 26k profit for last year

KhunIanB-UK
12th Aug 2012, 23:28
Hope others can provide more assistance now as whether you can "appeal" the decision and also inform what the situation could be as the visa runs out 3 days before your wife leaves the UK.

I hope it can be swung that someone can be contacted to review your application ASAP and contact the Inland Revenue to confirm the Tax Return and then put the stamp in the passport. It will be very costly by the other method you describe otherwise :-(

This does show the importance of keeping your eyes on the rules, regulations and evidence gathering, it is a far from simple process!

Good Luck...

Smidge
12th Aug 2012, 23:34
Thank you. Take care.

9851colle
12th Aug 2012, 23:50
I think you may need assistance of a Level 3 immigration advisor. This will cost you though.

Hope everything turns out ok for you and good luck for the future.

Mick

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 00:06
Thank you for that do know how to speck to one of those. We really don't know what we are doing. I used an agent last time. Is it the ukba I need to phone last time I called I gave up after 54 mins. Thanks again . Ash

Vinny
13th Aug 2012, 00:07
And to top it the lady who delt with us admitted not knowing what she was doing under the new laws.
A fiancé(e) (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/fiancee-proposed-cp/on-before-8july/) visa holder who had applied prior to 9 July 2012 should (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/fiancee-proposed-cp/on-before-8july/how-long/) have (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/part8/transitional-pt-8-app-fm/) been considered (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/spouse-cp/before9july/) under the old rules (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/part8/spouses_civil_partners/).

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 00:24
We aplyd way before the 9th of July. But they were so buzzy the could not seem us in person till last Tuesday. Am well off am about to say goodbye to my wife spose I'll have to start again. Yes the women said she didn't know what she was doing so pased me over to someone who did know. After 2.1/4 hous. Wish I know what to do. Thanks for your comment . Take care ash


[MODERATOR EDIT: This post has been edited because of a language filter violation. Please see this topic (http://thailand-uk.com/forums/showthread.php?8641-Important-Announcement-Please-Read-Carefully) for more information relating to the use of inappropriate language in the forums and circumventing or triggering the language filter. Thank you for your cooperation.]

Vinny
13th Aug 2012, 00:32
It may be best to postpone any trips and make an in-time valid (http://thailand-uk.com/forums/showthread.php?13945-Invalid-applications) FLR(M) (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/spouse-cp/before9july/applying-in-uk/) application by post.

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 00:39
We where thinking that but holiday already paid for sweet as it sounds we wanted to surprise her little girl on her birthday. Think we only have a couple of days left and don't have all the documents . I'll stop now about my sob story thanks everyone for your comments am sure we will work it out. Nothing another £2000. Can't fix kind regards Ashley an apinya xxx

Vinny
13th Aug 2012, 01:02
Note that if she goes on holiday, then she may have to start all over again, this time under the more (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/app-family-members/) complex (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/appendix-fmse/) new rules (http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2012/07/19/new-immigration-rules-brought-in-immediately/). May not be a nice Birthday present after all.

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 01:06
That's so true. Wish i new what to do . I can't get all the new documents before the 28 day deadline before the visa runs out.

Vinny
13th Aug 2012, 01:08
What new documents do you need? The new guidance may not be applicable under the old rules. Your previous submission may have been sufficient under the old rules.

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 01:18
Do you know what I need to do. Ash

Vinny
13th Aug 2012, 01:25
If you are unsure on what documents to submit, then consider consulting Merseymike (http://thailand-uk.com/forums/member.php?334-Merseymike) or another OISC (http://oisc.homeoffice.gov.uk/how_to_find_a_regulated_immigration_adviser/) advisor.

Tony M
13th Aug 2012, 01:29
Do you know what I need to do. Ash

The first thing you should do is post the reasons for refusal here. If you applied under the old rules, and were refused under the new rules, then UKBA have made an error, and people here can confirm that for you. Post the refusal notice as soon as possible, or write out the contents of the notice here.

Vinny
13th Aug 2012, 01:35
They never stamped her passport I got all the paper work back before they could. I thought this wouldn't look good on her passport. I just feel total robbed. And to top it the lady who delt with us admitted not knowing what she was doing under the new laws. We booked to go back to Thailand on the 18th sep.. For a holiday hence why I got her passport back.

Did they officially refuse or treat her application as withdrawn?

KhunIanB-UK
13th Aug 2012, 06:52
Smidge, what Vinny and Tony are saying could be great news for you :-) Hurry up and provide the details.answers to their questions here and you never know you may get it all sorted and at little extra cost :-) Anything else may cost dearly :-S

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 08:24
Withdrawn.

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 09:17
We are unable to get all the documents in the next 5 days. So we are unable to post them in time .

Gavva
13th Aug 2012, 10:29
My deepest sympathies Smidge, sounds like a nightmare mate.

Have read this thread very quickly due to being at work but am I correct in thinking Smidge's wife has been refused FLR due to him being unable to prove he earns £18,600?

If so, this is a HUGE cock up by the UKBA. Smidge's wife obviously entered the UK prior to July 9th on the family route and so her FLR should be considered under the old rules where the financial requirement is nowhere near as high/strict? He should only have needed to show he can support his wife without recourse to public funds which it would appear his bank statements do?!?!

If I'm correct this is very worrying indeed, that UKBA may not even be able to operate something as simple as knowing what set of rules to adhere to. My wife would almost certainly have been refused also if we applied in Smidge's and his wife's shoes, even with evidence of taxes paid as I currently earn under the £18,600...

Tony M
13th Aug 2012, 11:26
We are unable to get all the documents in the next 5 days. So we are unable to post them in time .


From what has been said, it seems that you don't need any more documents if you were advised to withdraw your wife's application because she didn't qualify under the new rules. The application should have been looked at under the old rules. My advice would be to go back immediately, tomorrow if possible, and sort it out.

9851colle
13th Aug 2012, 13:17
In my experience some UKBA staff don't know the rules. Ask to speak to the manager. But do this ASAP.

Mick

colin244
13th Aug 2012, 21:32
Agree and time is of the essence Smidge.

colin 244

KhunIanB-UK
13th Aug 2012, 22:26
Also worth contacting your MP to this, adding weight and also seeing how good they are :-S

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 22:48
Thanks for that mate. But we live in Devon. And it was Croydon ukba. We went too 200ish miles away. I tryd calling them today but was on hold for 54 mins again. And gave up. My wife came England in11/4/2012. And we married on the 10th may.

KhunIanB-UK
13th Aug 2012, 22:49
Then even more reason to contact your local MP!

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 22:52
We are already on the case.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks everyone you all have been a great help just with I could get through to the ukba so I can complain.

KhunIanB-UK
13th Aug 2012, 22:53
Nice one, keep on push, push, push and keep on getting some good advice on the forum here too, and as well as the information provided to the UKBA post everything relevent here too, you have some real smart and clued up people on here, but do need to be as clear as possible to get the best of it :-) Then you too can help others in a similar situation :-)

Make a diary note of all the problems you have had trying to get through and let your MP know about this, get them working for their money!

the_link
13th Aug 2012, 22:57
Thanks everyone you all have been a great help just with I could get through to the ukba so I can complain.

You can try, Smidge, and I wish you luck with a general complaint. I don't think it will do you much good and you should use this precious time to seek legal advice. There could possibly be more to this than you realise.

Please don't fanny around now.

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 22:57
We will. Hopefully we can get this sorted .many thanks

KhunIanB-UK
13th Aug 2012, 23:00
If it's your number one priority then you will :-)

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 23:03
It so is I love my wife very much. I feel helpless because I can't get through to speck to anyone

- - - Updated - - -

It so is I love my wife very much. I feel helpless because I can't get through to speck to anyone

the_link
13th Aug 2012, 23:10
You can try, Smidge, and I wish you luck with a general complaint. I don't think it will do you much good and you should use this precious time to seek legal advice. There could possibly be more to this than you realise.

Smidge, I note you posted your subsequent post a second after my post.

Bear in mind that invariably the appeals process is not carried out over the phone. Make your first phone call to a professional for some interim advice. Thereafter, call to make a complaint by all means but I really don't think it will get you far. Time for Plan B?

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 23:14
I've just read back through the ukba new laws on flr m. They say any forms submitted on or after 9th July are under the new rules. We tryd to submit a on line on the 22nd of June but we had problems and the site wouldn't let me up load the form. That when I phoned and made appointment using there premium survive . We had to wait till the 7/08/ to be seen. So I spose they use that date. So we fall under the new rules.



[MODERATOR EDIT: This post has been edited because of a language filter violation. Please see this topic (http://thailand-uk.com/forums/showthread.php?8641-Important-Announcement-Please-Read-Carefully) for more information relating to the use of inappropriate language in the forums and circumventing or triggering the language filter. Thank you for your cooperation.]

the_link
13th Aug 2012, 23:22
This question might have been raised previously, but if a spouse now applies for FLR wouldn't they be liable to the new five-year rule including the requisite English tests?

I posed this question on 15 July, but, unfortunately, never received a response. I am still of the belief that in your wife's case her circumstance falls under the old rules, Smidge.

Smidge
13th Aug 2012, 23:39
I believe now it's 5 years under the new rules and yes to the English test

the_link
13th Aug 2012, 23:48
If we both can't be certain then your best option is to seek immediate legal advice.

That'll be my last word in this particular thread. Good luck.

SDM
14th Aug 2012, 02:31
In my experience some UKBA staff don't know the rule

We discussed this on another thread but it my experience when things get this messed up its time to send the heavyweights in.

It's not ideal and it's not right and I know money is an issue but in your shoes I would employ a lawyer to deal with this immediately and aggressively. At least get a consultation to discuss the matter, I posted it on another thread but contact The Law Society and get them to give you a lawyer in your area. Its got to be someone who can represent you in Court so they know you are very serious and if things don't go your way you will take it further and make a big noise. You have been treated disgracefully and it has caused you and your wife emotional distress not to mention a waste of time and money.

They seem to have clearly have made a mistake but I would send an aggressive fighter into their arena who with his knowledge and experience can deal with them on their own terms rather then deal with them without assistance. Initially pointing out their error, secondly getting an extension to the visa whilst this is being dealt with and thirdly getting the application looked at properly.

I'm sorry but I feel complaining your your MP (although it should), calling Croyden or driving there will achieve nothing. These people are under qualified jobsworths who don't give a damn and you are just another number, one of hundreds if not thousands. You've got to send in a pitbull.

S

PS Found it. Put your postcode in and area of law you need asistance with and "Robert's your mother's brother" http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/findasolicitor.law

Vinny
14th Aug 2012, 03:27
So we fall under the new rules.

That may be incorrect (A280( c )(ii) (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/part8/transitional-pt-8-app-fm/), as your wife was previously granted leave as a fiancé(e) (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/guidance/ecg/set/set1/) under 290-295 (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/immigrationlaw/immigrationrules/part8/fiance(e)sandproposedcivilpartne/)).

Gavva
14th Aug 2012, 10:29
As Vinny says above, your wife's FLR should absolutely be considered under the OLD rules as she entered the family route (was granted leave to enter) prior to July 9th.

This is what I believe however someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I really hope you can get this sorted Smidge, the UKBA have screwed up on a grand scale hear I feel

Below is from the UKBA website

"If you applied to come to the UK as a fiance(e) or proposed civil partner on or before 8 July 2012, the conditions of your stay have not changed. If you apply to extend your stay or settle in the UK, we will consider your application under the rules that applied until 8 July 2012"

Someone please tell me if I'm missing something obvious here...The UKBA has really angered me, useless

Additional question. Is anyone in T-UK land aware of any other FLR/ILR applications that have been incorrectly assessed under the new rules (as opposed to correctly assessed under the old rules) since they were put in place? I'm now worried for my wife and other future ILR/FLR applicants.



[MODERATOR EDIT: This post has been edited because of a language filter violation. Please see this topic (http://thailand-uk.com/forums/showthread.php?8641-Important-Announcement-Please-Read-Carefully) for more information relating to the use of inappropriate language in the forums and circumventing or triggering the language filter. Thank you for your cooperation.]

colin244
14th Aug 2012, 22:38
Below is from the UKBA website

"If you applied to come to the UK as a fiance(e) or proposed civil partner on or before 8 July 2012, the conditions of your stay have not changed. If you apply to extend your stay or settle in the UK, we will consider your application under the rules that applied until 8 July 2012"

Someone please tell me if I'm missing something obvious here...The UKBA has really angered me, useless




[MODERATOR EDIT: This post has been edited because of a language filter violation. Please see this topic (http://thailand-uk.com/forums/showthread.php?8641-Important-Announcement-Please-Read-Carefully) for more information relating to the use of inappropriate language in the forums and circumventing or triggering the language filter. Thank you for your cooperation.]

Understatement Gavva as they appear to not know their own rules :nod:

colin 244

melnathan
14th Aug 2012, 23:31
Do I understand the above properly. Jan has been here on a FLR since Oct 2010 so we come under the old rules for ILR later this year. Under the old system there was no earning minimum. I have never shown 18000 pa as self employed and now winding down never will.

Melnathan

Gavva
15th Aug 2012, 09:07
I'm in almost exactly the same boat as your good self Melnathan. Wife entered UK on a spouse visa October 2010 under the old rules and, according to the UKBA in several places on their website/application forms/immigration dictorate etc, should therefore be assessed for ILR this October under the old rules also. She should in theory be granted ILR without problem.

If the UKBA assess her under the new rules including the new financial requirement, then quite simply they are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG! I am a bit under the £18,600 (not a huge amount) and am a bit upset by this thread, though obviously not to the extent of Smidge no doubt. Any update Smidge? We are all hoping you can get this sorted and JUSTICE PREVAILS!

Smidge
15th Aug 2012, 13:11
Hi I've had some good news today. I got through to the ukba. I told the man everything . He was very shocked to hear what had happend to us. He told me 100 percent we should be tryd under the old law. Any one entering the uk before the 8th or 9th July this year should be treated under the old law. I have to reapply using the old flr m form. But I have to write. Coving letter to tell them this. And to to say what has happend. The man on the phone told me that the staff don't really know what they are doing and which law to use. Make sure all of this is written in the letter.plus he told me to ask for a full refund for the money I lost. Even he read through the new form and it was a nightmare to understand.
as I used a agent to get my last to visas I'm going to use them again. Hope that helped again my English ant to great. But anything else I find out I'll let everyone know . Good luck

Gary & Nok
15th Aug 2012, 13:25
That is great news Smidge BUT I hope you got his name, rank and serial number so that he can be contacted should the person receiving your new (re-applied for) application still be of the same belief as the one you encountered last time.


I used a agent to get my last to visas I'm going to use them again Obviously up to you but I would say PLEASE don't waste your money on an agent. The new ILR form might appear daunting (as you know) but we here will help you through all parts of the form if need be.

Gavva
15th Aug 2012, 14:14
Excellent news Smidge, thank so much for sharing. I sincerely hope your wife's new application goes through without a hitch however do take heed of Gary's advice above with regards to using an expensive agency - this website is better than any agency and is completely FREE!

Please update us with how the application goes Smidge.

In a sense, allthough the UKBA are useless, at least they are aware of that fact and may take extra measures to make sure situations such as this are prevented, but my breath shall not be held...

Smidge
15th Aug 2012, 14:20
Thanks for that. What a bunch of [idiots] I didn't get there name first time around. So I just called back.the lady on the phone told me that we would be tryd under the new laws. After I told her about the chat I had with the man in the morning she put me on hold when she got back to me after speaking to someone higher up. Very sheepishly said I'm sorry you are right. We will be treated under the old law . Are these the people that are in charge of everything . Damn that is terrible. We all need to do something. I bet there is a lot of unhappy people out there because of these people who don't know what they are doing. And she would not give me her full name or any number . [expletive deleted] terrible .

Smidge
15th Aug 2012, 15:02
I'm sorry everyone if my strong words if I have afended anyone I'm sorry.

GTG
15th Aug 2012, 15:59
I think many of us were already thinking those words, Smidge, having read what you have been through! Disgraceful.

colin244
15th Aug 2012, 21:57
Sums UKBA up they don't know what their doing hence the shambles and have no doubt employed some people on low wages to do the paperwork/phone calls who to be honest should not be there :nod: The May woman is responsible and the sooner she gets the boot the better :nod:

colin 244

Gary & Nok
16th Aug 2012, 12:56
The May woman is responsible and the sooner she gets the boot the better :nod:Every politician is as bad as each other, and no guarantee that the next one would be any better.She was probably handed a job in the (re)shuffle that she didn't really want and is making the best of a bad job. (why the hell am I defending her :eek:)

It would be an idea to drop her a line about this cock-up to make her aware of what her staff are doing.

colin244
16th Aug 2012, 22:04
(why the hell am I defending her :eek:)



No idea mate but someone somewhere (probably her mother) loves her. ;)

colin 244

Smidge
21st Aug 2012, 08:40
Can. Someone help. What happend to the flr m law dated 6/4/2012. I can remember when we when for my interview the man said something about we've missed it by a few days. Was that the cut off point for anyone entrying the uk under the old law. Because my wife got here on the 11/4/2012.
Thanks smidge .

Gavva
21st Aug 2012, 09:05
I'm not sure what FLR M laws changed on 6/4/2012 but I've been keeping on top of the changes lately and, don't quote me on this, seeing as your wife entered the UK on the family route on 11/4/2012 there shouldn't be any changes in the rules that affect her application. She entered before 9th July therefore should be assessed under the old rules which have been in place for a while.

If you ask me the UKBA have fed you absolute bull, they have made unacceptable mistakes with the incorrect info they have given you. Hopefully somebody on this forum with more immigration law knowledge can offer you some advice mate.

Smidge
21st Aug 2012, 16:37
Thanks for that since I posted that I've again spoken to ukba. And the man was so helpfully he gave me his full name and his direct number. So I'll looks good now . My next post will be if I find anything else out that be some help to someone .
All the best ......ash

Gavva
21st Aug 2012, 19:29
keep us posted if you can Ash, cheers

weaver93
21st Aug 2012, 19:40
Hi Smidge,

Happy that progress is being made, on your application now.

FLR Dated 6/4/12 - probably when,new fees came out.

Smidge
12th Sep 2012, 11:05
Hi , I've just sent my second atempt at flrm. By post. Dose anyone know how long it takes to get an answer
cheers ash

colin244
12th Sep 2012, 21:51
As with most things UKBA its unknown mate and up to them unfortunately :(

colin 244

Gavva
13th Sep 2012, 07:34
Best of luck smidge. Will be sending off my wife's ILR application in just over a fortnight, not expecting a result until after xmas.

HappyCar
17th Sep 2012, 00:21
Good luck with you application. Regardless of the UKBA time delays, be assured your fiance still has legal status in the country until the matter is concluded. Only issue is that she won't be able to leave and re-enter the UK after the fiance visa expires. Don't ask for the passport back for this reason as the UKBA will defer this to being a cancelled application.

Flip
18th Sep 2012, 01:09
Ok sorry I'm not very good at reading and writing. The paper work which was missing was proff of paying tax . My last tax returns. And real prove I earn 18600.

Sorry, I may be being lazy here but I've been away from the forum for a while and I haven't read up on the new visa rules. Is there now a requirement that the applicant's UK partner provides proof of paying income tax? Income yes but tax?