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Thread: ILR Debacle

  1. #1
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ RichardSt's Avatar
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    Default ILR Debacle

    (This could also be posted in Announcements but I think that it is also relevant to current UK Visas)

    I'm very happy to announce that aftermy wife has been granted her I.L.R. settlement visa at Sheffield PEO yesterday!


    I would however like to offer a wordof caution for future applicants at the same time..... (apologies in advance if this becomes a rant)
    I don't want to worrypeople unnecessarily, but I do believe that this is a very important point tobe made as I believed our application to be bulletproof!


    We had everything that was requestedon the SET(M) form. ESOL with citizenship done early on so that we didn't needto worry about anything, new bank account set up in my wife's name to providesome of the document trail, N.I. number obtained etc, etc

    So, in we went at 1pm - appointmentwas booked for 1.45pm but you're advised to arrive at least 30 minutes earlyfor security. It actually took 10 minutes...

    Application handed in and initiallychecked by a BA Officer. We were pointed in the direction of payments.... Oncemy pocket was £1350 lighter we were told to sit and wait to be called. 2 hourslater we were called to a booth to see the officer that was dealing with ourapplication...

    After the initial hello's thefollowing conversation took place:

    PEO - "Is this applicationcomplete or would you like to include anything else?"
    ME - "Well yes it's complete, otherthan the photocopies of all the original documents that are requested on theform."
    PEO - "Are you sure?"
    ME - "Well... yes?"
    PEO - "If that is the case thensadly I will have to refuse your application as I don't believe that you havesufficiently demonstrated that you have lived together as husband and wife forthe last 2 years"
    ME - (unspoken....❇❇❇!!! - this isbulletproof and of course I've been living with my wife for the last 2 years!)
    ME - "I'm sorry, what can bemissing? I've included everything that you've asked for.... What else can Igive you?"
    PEO - Silent
    ME - "What else are you lookingfor?" I have lots of additional documents here..." (I had taken a huge lever arch file full ofletters over the last 2 years....just in case)
    PEO - Silent
    ME - "According to theapplication form we had to provide a minimum of 6 letters spread over the last2 years from 3 separate sources addressed to us jointly or individually..."
    PEO - Silent
    ME - "I've given you 3 Counciltax letters (approved document accordingto the SET(M) form); 2 water rate bills/letters (approved document..) and 4 HSBC bank letters (2 addressed to me and 2 addressed to my wife at the same address etcapproved document). Surely this fulfils your document requirement?"
    PEO - "Are you telling me thatyou want to submit the application as it is?"
    ME - "Well not if it's going tobe refused! (keeping as calm as possible). What else do you need?"
    PEO - Silent

    I won't continue the exchanges as myblood is beginning to boil just thinking about it.

    In the end, he (reluctantly?) asked meto pass him all the documents from the file. He flicked through them all andselected another 3 letters. 2 that had been addressed to me (a gym membershipand a Denplan letter) and 1 addressed to my wife (a NHS letter). He told us totake a seat.

    15 minutes of anxious waiting - (methinking about how I was going to have to send my wife back to Thailand within3 weeks and all the fallout from that)

    He came back towards the window and summonedus both over. Only at this point did he ask for the photocopies of the originaldocuments (the 9 mentioned above + passport photocopies). They were duly handedover.

    15 minutes later he came back andsummoned us over again.

    PEO - "OK I have reviewed yourapplication and can confirm that we have granted your application."
    US - "OK, thank you, thankyou..."
    PEO - "Just wait in this roomfor 10 minutes and they will call you again to collect your passport."
    US - "OK, thank you very much,thank you"
    (Iwas seething and dying to ask what the problem had been, but thought to myself,'keep your mouth shut and collect the passport with the settlement visa inside')

    10 minutes later, we were called tothe desk, passport handed over and we were asked to check the spelling of nameetc. All was OK. OK good, off you go.

    I still have no idea how we didn'tcomply exactly with what hadspecifically been requested in the application form. As I say, from my point ofview this was bulletproof!?

    I am eternally grateful that we paidthe extra and went to a PEO and that I took a folder full of additional information/documentsthat could be called upon if necessary - as they turned out to be! If we hadsubmitted our application by post and it had been judged by the same officerthen our lives would be upside down today.

    I would urge anybody that needs to gothrough this process to include as many documents as possible with yourapplication. Please do not assume that the minimum that they request will besufficient.....EVEN THOUGH IT SHOULD BE OR WHY ELSE STATE THAT IT IS!!

    I will be writing a letter to mylocal MP, explaining all of the above, plus much more. It is OK wanting tolimit immigration but please do not change the rules that have been specifiedas part of the application process!

    I can only conclude that PEO's and footballreferees must attend the same training schemes. They get the overview butinterpretation of the rules is purely discretionary!

    Good luck to all of you with anyfuture applications to (the current) Mrs May's circus

  2. #2
    Premium Member Allan's Avatar
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    He was probably bullied at school! BTW - well done!

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    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ RichardSt's Avatar
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    :-) you could be right!
    Thank you

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    the same thing happened to us in march this year and that was at sheffield too we probably had the same clown

  5. #5
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    Sounds a big worry that! god knows what i would have done? proberly attack him, i do hate these type's of jumped up little fellows.

    God i'm dreading all that later .
    Last edited by TUK Mod Team; 20th Nov 2011 at 18:28. Reason: Language violation

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    Congratulations on ILR RichardSt. You did well to keep your cool. Perhaps the officers silence was intended to trick you into offering some unrehearsed information, which he could then perhaps have twisted into a cause for refusal.

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    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ RichardSt's Avatar
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    Cheers guys

    Sorry to vent my anger here but I hope you can appreciate my frustration....

  8. #8
    Furniture เฟอร์นิเจอร์ the_link's Avatar
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    Congratulations to you both, Richard.

    My Muscovite colleague has her ILR interview later this week in Croydon. If she is subjected to the same treatment, I know for a fact, she will go berserk. There will be bodies everywhere, though it will be good business for local undertakers.
    Last edited by the_link; 16th Nov 2011 at 21:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_link View Post
    she will go berserk. There will be bodies everywhere, though it will be good business for local undertakers.
    Tony let us know what happens.

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    Furniture เฟอร์นิเจอร์ the_link's Avatar
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    I'll find out Monday, Sean, and let you know.

    What these people seem to forget is they've just relieved the applicant of 1.4k and ten minutes later treat them like complete berks.

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    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_link View Post
    What these people seem to forget is they've just relieved the applicant of 1.4k and ten minutes later treat them like complete berks.
    And worse........ we pay their wages to treat us like that !!!!!!!!!

    Where else in the world, but the good old UK ?????????

  12. #12
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ RichardSt's Avatar
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    Very true!

    Customer service for goods we are buying? Bull!

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    Old Hand มือเก่า BigRed's Avatar
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    I find this very worrying on two counts. Firstly I was under the impression that the ILR was a straight forward application with no nuances, tick all the well defined boxes as laid out in the application form and you were through, no ifs, buts, and maybes, no need for additional documents and supporting evidence.

    Second, that the interview was only worth (?) doing if you were in a hurry and needed the visa straight away. I was under the impression that a postal application was the best option if your documents were a bit dodgy.

    Has anyone been refused who thought they had met the requirements?

    I'm truly horrified by the fees increase since my wife went through ILR 4-5 years ago.

  14. #14
    Premium Member KhunIanB-UK's Avatar
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    Congratulations on the ILR. If you are going to complain to your MP, also complain to the Sheffield PEO heads and let both know about the complaints to the other, but make sure you do it clearly and precisely and requiring a response so that it is dealt with properly and if the PEO is out of order and one of the ones that pins photos for darts practice, hopefully they will not be in the role for long.

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    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ RichardSt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRed View Post
    I find this very worrying on two counts. Firstly I was under the impression that the ILR was a straight forward application with no nuances, tick all the well defined boxes as laid out in the application form and you were through, no ifs, buts, and maybes, no need for additional documents and supporting evidence.
    My sentiments exactly - if we comply with everything that they specify is required and we provide the documents that they approve of, there should be no grounds at all for anything other than a 'thank you very much - here is your visa'
    Last edited by Lee; 20th Nov 2011 at 19:48. Reason: Fix quote code

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    Serial Poster ผู้โพสต์ต่อเนื่อง colin244's Avatar
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    First congrats then these people (came across one in Croydon for Biometrics) don't give a hoot and are more likely thinking of their luch or evening and should not be in the job. Will be interested in what your MP comes up with but this sums up UKBA and the shambles it is when you do everything correct. An example is the May/Brodie thing

    colin 244

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    Unfortunately, it's an indictment of the way the UKBA caseworkers are instructed to operate. They are expected to work to management guidelines that give the individual caseworker no scope for using his own common sense.

    The Immigration Rules require that someone seeking ILR as the spouse of a person settled in the UK has to demonstrate, inter alia, that they have been living together for the preceding 2 years. This can be achieved in any number of ways, but the UKBA has decided to require production of a given number of items of correspondence as the test. This insistence upon x number of letters as a way of demonstrating that the criterion is met, and to the exclusion of other means, is not reflected in the Immigration Rules.

    The caseworker, amongst other things, marks the dates of the correspondence on a pro-forma timeline. If he feels that the whole 2-year period is not adequately covered by the letters provided, then he is instructed to infer that the requirement to be satisfied that the couple has lived together for the preceding 2 years is not met.

  18. #18
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ RichardSt's Avatar
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    Thanks for this Mike....I feel another rant coming on(not directed at you but rather the system!)

    I can only deduce that if this is indeed the fact that, The caseworker, amongst other things, marks the dates of the correspondence on a pro-forma timeline. If he feels that the whole 2-year period is not adequately covered by the letters provided, then he is instructed to infer that the requirement to be satisfied that the couple has lived together for the preceding 2 years is not met, then the UKBA and theUK Government are a bunch of lying, cheating, thieving crooks. (Not sure whyI'm surprised to be saying that...)

    Lying because they claim that they will (whether in the UK or overseas) be thorough and polite, and will treat you with dignity and the information we provide will be in plain language, accurate and meeting your needs. I must disagree with this. The information that they have provided is not accurate and meeting my needs. Reference service standards andwhat applicants can expect from the UKBA (https://apply.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/iapply.portaland http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/aboutus/service/):

    Cheating because, if the above is true about marking dates on a pro-forma timeline to make the assessment of meeting the living together requirements, they are deliberately not making reference to something thatis later used as a specific measure in the application process. The process is supposed to be fair. How can it be fair to measure an application against hidden criteria?

    Thieving because, using the measure above, they are deliberately trying, by omission of the reference, to catch applicants out by assessing against an non defined scale. They are, in my view, fraudulently taking my £1350. This must be fraud. I am apparently paying for a clearly defined application process. If a criteria is added to that process that is not explicitly made clear to the applicant then the fraud has taken place. In criminal law a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual. I firmly believe that we were intentionally deceived if we were assessed against an undisclosed secret measurement scale after having already been made to hand over £1350! Personal corporate gain for the Government to subsidise their inefficiencies elsewhere throughout the system.

    It is essential that they remember that this is an application process, an application process that is costing us anything upward of £972 - certainly not an inconsequential amount.

    Just as a point of clarity. My wife (at the time fiancee) arrived in the UK on 2nd August 2009. We were married 5th December 2009 and got her FLR visa issued 7th December 2009.

    We supplied with the application:

    3 x Council tax bills/statements (all 3 in joint names dated 11th August 2009; 8th March 2010 and 7th March 2011)

    2 x Water Rates bills (both in joint names dated 19thF ebruary 2010 and 18th February 2011)

    4 x Letters from HSBC Bank (2 addressed to me, a HSBC letter dated 28th April 2010 and one dated 11th May 2011; 2 addressed to my wife, a letter from HSBC dated 26th November 2009 and a HSBC bank statement dated 13th August 2011)

    If this doesn't represent a fair spread of letters/documentsacross the 2 years then I don't know what does!

    Rant over

    I am awaiting a reply from both UKBA and my MP

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    Forum Antiquity ความเก่า dan&ploy's Avatar
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    Rt Honourable Davis Putrid-Smith M.P.
    Sheffield.
    Up North.

    Dear Mr. St.,

    Thank-you for your letter.

    Upon first reading it did indeed appear that you had a justifiable claim for unfair treatment and I immediately asked one of my plethora of personal assistants to find out more details from the UKBA and to get their view on this case.

    However another personal assistant pointed out to me that in fact, you have gone and married a foreigner and worse still, had the gall to bring them back to our glorious country.

    You must be aware, Mr. St. that this government, and indeed the opposition parties, (despite not having the benefit of public school education as I had), are very concerned about the number of immigrants coming into this country, something to which you have now contributed. Worse still I am reliably informed that your spouse is probably not white in colour and possibly doesn't even wear shoes or know how to shoot pheasant. You must see how inappropriate this is and I can only assume your parents did not beat you enough when you young. Perhaps a regular rogering by the school prefects as I had to endure would have set you straight, but then my assistant has also pointed out you may gone to one of those other schools and indeed may even have a job outside of banking.

    I must therefore ask that you remove your spouse, and ideally yourself, from these shores immediately. Perhaps you would find Italy or Spain more to your liberal pinky way of thinking.

    I do appreciate for this great kingdom to enjoy its standard of living it is necessary that a certain number of people are required to drive my cars and maintain my gardens but those roles can easily be filled by Eastern Europeans who work for a fraction of your salary and do not complain, as you are doing, even if they have yet to understand how to wear cufflinks or a cravat.

    My assistant has arranged for the immigration to visit you in the next few days so please ensure your coolie has packed your and your concubine's bags by this time.

    Respectfully....

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    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ RichardSt's Avatar
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