Schengen for Germany

**-Keith-** · 11th Dec 2011, 13:01

Biff,

I'm glad you mentioned pensions because if Dave had signed us up to this new treaty it would have meant a Tobin tax on financial transactions. Who would pay for this ? The savers, the borrowers and the pension funds ie: you, me and the rest of joe public. As 50% of Europe's financial transactions are done in London everyone here would have a smaller pension upon retirement, everyone here slightly less interest on savings, everyone here would have a slightly more expensive mortgage. We would be paying for the rest of our lives to save the Euro. Did you vote for that ? did I ? No we didn't.

Interesting poll out today 62% think Dave has done the right thing, 19 against and 19 don't knows.

The best thing that could happen now would be for the Lib Dems to leave the coalition forcing the Tories to call an election. Dave would win by a country mile.

**Tobias** · 11th Dec 2011, 13:09

Originally Posted by bifftastic

Well, everyone that thinks 'leaving' Europe (I put leaving in quotes because we can't actually leave, we are a European country!) will benefit the people of the UK will probably get half of their wish. By half I mean that we'll not be involved in decisions about how the rest of the continent make decisions, but will still have to put up with the results of those decisions ...

Leaving the politics completely out of the argument, what are the "decisions" you believe are to be made without the UK? The UK will still be part of the EU to the same extent as it was before the veto.

**KhunIanB-UK** · 11th Dec 2011, 13:16

Trying to catch up with all the ins and outs I found this article quite an interesting one:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16115373

"eurozone and other EU countries to provide up to 200bn euros to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to help debt-stricken eurozone members" - hmmm wonder where that would be coming from on top of all that already provided.

" "automatic consequences" for countries whose public deficit exceeds 3% of GDP" - I shouldn't laugh.

"However, some countries - such as the Republic of Ireland, which is in the eurozone - have a constitutional requirement to hold a referendum on any major transfer of powers to the EU.The Irish Minister for European Affairs, Lucinda Creighton, told the Reuters news agency the probability of a referendum was "50-50 and we will be looking at the detail over the next couple of weeks"." - Wonder how many referendums will be needed for the answer that suits them - even if it appears the constitutional requirement might be overlooked in this case :-S

"French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the sticking point had been Mr Cameron's insistence on a protocol allowing London to opt-out on proposed change on financial services.
"We could not accept this," he said." - Wonder why they couldn't accept it, surely it would have been a simple agreement to add or is it the sticky little fingers?

**Tobias** · 11th Dec 2011, 13:21

Originally Posted by KhunIanB-UK

... "French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the sticking point had been Mr Cameron's insistence on a protocol allowing London to opt-out on proposed change on financial services.
"We could not accept this," he said." - Wonder why they couldn't accept it, surely it would have been a simple agreement to add or is it the sticky little fingers?

I think it might have something to do with the huge amount of money the UK would have been forced to hand over from the proposed tax/levy.

**bifftastic** · 11th Dec 2011, 13:40

Not the UK as a whole really, the banks that operate in the UK. The institutions that are largely responsible for the mess that we're all currently in!

**-Keith-** · 11th Dec 2011, 13:44

Originally Posted by bifftastic

Not the UK as a whole really, the banks that operate in the UK. The institutions that are largely responsible for the mess that we're all currently in!

That post shows that you have almost no understanding of how the financial crisis started in the first place.

**bifftastic** · 12th Dec 2011, 19:46

I believe that Dave has put party before country and seriously damaged our future ability to prosper.

Here's an interesting article that outlines some other, more expert, opinions on the issue...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16133286

Removal
As for our biggest companies, well the bosses of three of them (none of whom would be seen as pro-European zealots) have all said to me that they are unhappy about the prime minister removing himself from the negotiating table not only on the future of the eurozone but also - potentially - on other issues of huge importance to the UK.
Here is what one said to me: "Margaret Thatcher was a constant thorn in the side of European leaders, but she never vacated the negotiating table; I am anxious by the implications of what the prime minister has done."

In fact, as all the business leaders to whom I spoke were quick to point out, the decision by the 17 eurozone nations - plus as many as nine other EU states - to opt for an intergovernmental agreement that excludes the UK raises the prospect of this group becoming (explicitly or implicitly) the decision-making body for all EU economic and business issues, especially those relating to the single market.

**AntonyB** · 12th Dec 2011, 21:22

Anyway, getting the thread back on track (where's the forum's unofficial politics moderator when he's really needed

?), I sent off our applications today. Twelve quid-odd for the Special return post

! I'll report back in due course.

**KhunIanB-UK** · 13th Dec 2011, 00:21

You should get a few more Euro to your GB Pounds now though :-)

**AntonyB** · 16th Dec 2011, 10:13

Originally Posted by AntonyB

Anyway, getting the thread back on track (where's the forum's unofficial politics moderator when he's really needed

?), I sent off our applications today. Twelve quid-odd for the Special return post

! I'll report back in due course.

Just got the applications back un-processed, with a letter stating that a photocopy of step-daughter's father's passport is needed with her application!?!? As far as we're aware, he doesn't even have a passport. Tried to phone their visa office, but they don't answer the 'phones on Fridays. I'm a bit concerned now, as we're due to travel on the 2nd of Jan. Anyone got any ideas on this?

**AntonyB** · 23rd Dec 2011, 00:13

Anyway, sent the applications back on Monday with a covering letter explaining that stepdaughter's biological father doesn't have a passport. Got everything back today with multi-entry visas (which gives us the opportunity to visit friends in Finland in February or March if we can afford it). Well done and thanks to the German Embassy for a very efficient service.