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  1. #21

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    Hi Donutz. Good to hear your wise words on here.

    A question for you. My wife would love to go on a girly weekend with my sister, nieces etc. I wonder how far the the family connections go. Would my wife's sister on law count as a family member for my wife to travel with? If she does, how do we prove it for a Schengen visa bearing in mind she has a different surname to me etc.

    TIA.

  2. #22
    Member สมาชิก
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    Thanks. Cheers.

    I'm afraid she isn't eligible.

    D 2003/38:
    Article 2
    Definitions

    For the purposes of this Directive:
    1) "Union citizen" means any person having the nationality of a Member State;

    2) "Family member" means:
    (a) the spouse;
    (b) the partner with whom the Union citizen has contracted a registered partnership, on the
    basis of the legislation of a Member State, if the legislation of the host Member State
    treats registered partnerships as equivalent to marriage and in accordance with the
    conditions laid down in the relevant legislation of the host Member State;
    (c) the direct descendants who are under the age of 21 or are dependants and those of the
    spouse or partner as defined in point (b);
    (d) the dependent direct relatives in the ascending line and those of the spouse or partner as
    defined in point (b);
    3) "Host Member State" means the Member State to which a Union citizen moves in order to
    exercise his/her right of free movement and residence.

    Article 3
    Beneficiaries
    1. This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move to or reside in a Member State other
    than that of which they are a national, and to their family members as defined in point 2 of Article 2
    who accompany or join them.
    Source: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...77:0123:en:PDF

    If you really want to dive into it:
    https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/wh...visa-policy_en -->
    Operational instructions for the application of the Visa Code are further specified in the Handbook for the processing of visa applications and the modification of issued visas ---> PART III:SPECIFIC RULES RELATING TO APPLICANTS WHO ARE FAMILY MEMBERS OF EU CITIZENS OR SWISS CITIZENS........................................... 81

    And as a bonus, on which embassy one should apply the Visa Code says:

    REGULATION (EC) No 810/2009 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 13 July 2009
    establishing a Community Code on Visas
    (Visa Code)

    (...)
    Article 5
    Member State competent for examining and deciding on an application
    1. The Member State competent for examining and deciding on an application for a uniform visa shall be:
    (a) the Member State whose territory constitutes the sole destination of the visit(s);
    (b) if the visit includes more than one destination, the Member State whose territory constitutes the main destination of the visit(s) in terms of the length or purpose of stay; or
    (c) if no main destination can be determined, the Member State whose external border the applicant intends to cross in order to enter the territory of the Member States.
    And I do hope that any of you who are not a fan of VFS, TLS etc. will bug embassies about direct applications (by appointment) as per the Schengen visa rules and that they should put all that on the relevant websites. If enough people bother them and put just-citizen@ in the CC these embassies who don't mention direct access may finally stop doing so and stop people from wasting more cash than they need/want to. Just like Rasg I do rattle various embassy cages from time to time, sometimes with success, sometimes not. The more people who slap embassies on the wrist the better.

  3. #23

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    I think you rattle them more than me. I've only had single Schengen for my wife for Iceland. We will try the no visa route to France next month though.

  4. #24
    Veteran ผู้มีประสบการณ์ Andy R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasg View Post
    I think you rattle them more than me. I've only had single Schengen for my wife for Iceland. We will try the no visa route to France next month though.
    Interested to see how you get on with that next month



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  5. #25
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ nigel&panada's Avatar
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    the Schengen rules are utterly stupid, I had a work colleague who was Indian and in the UK working and living on initially FLR and later ULR and my wife was here on family visit visa, me and the Mrs went on a short holiday to Dublin and southern Ireland whereas my colleague was barred from that under her status in the UK under Irelands Schengen rules. UK visit visa can go to Ireland, ILR and FLR you cant without Schengen.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy R View Post
    Interested to see how you get on with that next month
    I will report back.

  7. #27
    Premium Member KhunIanB-UK's Avatar
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    I have to take deep breaths whenever I see these issues crop up as it's an EU fundamental right that is so poorly implemented that it beggars belief. One of the reasons why I voted out. If the 28 EU member states can't even get this right imagine what it will be like when they have a multilingual 27 state army :-S.

    Andy, I would seriously contact your MEPs and query them over the free and expedited Schengen visa they require you to get at a cost and delays.

    I would then consider a holiday to Turkey eg Gumbet, who whilst not in the EU, will allow you both to holiday there without the extra hassles you have now found trying to holiday to a fellow EU state. How crazy is that?

    On a secondary note, do you mind if I cut your drive out of the case (will no longer be covered by any returns policy) as it's not working as is, or did you want to see if Retailer might be able to sort anything out under warranty?

  8. #28
    Veteran ผู้มีประสบการณ์ Andy R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhunIanB-UK View Post
    I have to take deep breaths whenever I see these issues crop up as it's an EU fundamental right that is so poorly implemented that it beggars belief. One of the reasons why I voted out. If the 28 EU member states can't even get this right imagine what it will be like when they have a multilingual 27 state army :-S.

    Andy, I would seriously contact your MEPs and query them over the free and expedited Schengen visa they require you to get at a cost and delays.

    I would then consider a holiday to Turkey eg Gumbet, who whilst not in the EU, will allow you both to holiday there without the extra hassles you have now found trying to holiday to a fellow EU state. How crazy is that?

    On a secondary note, do you mind if I cut your drive out of the case (will no longer be covered by any returns policy) as it's not working as is, or did you want to see if Retailer might be able to sort anything out under warranty?
    Whatever you can do with the drive is fine as it’s as no use as it is.




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    Nothing ever Changes...but the shoes!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel&panada View Post
    the Schengen rules are utterly stupid, I had a work colleague who was Indian and in the UK working and living on initially FLR and later ULR and my wife was here on family visit visa, me and the Mrs went on a short holiday to Dublin and southern Ireland whereas my colleague was barred from that under her status in the UK under Irelands Schengen rules. UK visit visa can go to Ireland, ILR and FLR you cant without Schengen.
    The visa rules of most western countries are very much alike, though with differences in variables like maximum stay etc. Indians, Thai etc all would need a visa to entee the Schengen area. But thanks to European rules both a UK, Schengen or other European visa would be issued for free, asap etc. So no difference there between Schengen and UK visas. But since Ireland and the UK decided to waive the visa requirements for some specific cases this simplified things for some people such as those on a short stay UK visa (from certain nationalities) wishing to visit ire. You could ofcourse beg the UK and Irish to stop with these exceptions if you would prefer that everybody needs a visa to cross the border. But don't blame Schengen rules for the current situation , blame the UK and Irish.

    Edit: before anyone says, yes I know that EU directives such as freedom of movement take precedence over UK and Schengen visa legislation. So technically the Thai spouse of a UK, German or Irish national does not need a visa when visiting other EU/EEA countries. But good luck crossing the border... carrying marriage certificates etc arguing with authorities and not being allowed to board the airplane or carrier because they want to see a visa sticker...
    Last edited by Donutz; 23rd Oct 2017 at 06:29.

  10. #30
    Premium Member KhunIanB-UK's Avatar
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    Edit: before anyone says, yes I know that EU directives such as freedom of movement take precedence over UK and Schengen visa legislation. So technically the Thai spouse of a UK, German or Irish national does not need a visa when visiting other EU/EEA countries. But good luck crossing the border... carrying marriage certificates etc arguing with authorities and not being allowed to board the airplane or carrier because they want to see a visa sticker...
    My thoughts are that it wouldn't have been too difficult for the EU and all it's member states to have come to an agreement that meant that any EU States visa stamp issued to family members of any EU Citizen encompassed the right of freedom of movement through all EU States when travelling with the EU Citizen, therefore negating the need and hassle for any delays and hassles. Seems like they just want to make life as difficult as possible for anyone that is outside of the EU fraternity...

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