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  1. #1
    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ Flip's Avatar
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    Default Be Even More Careful What You Say

    A lot of things can get you into trouble in Thailand these days and here's yet another:

    https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/pol...from-criticism

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    Not much different from a certain body which wanted to ban any group that disagreed with it.


    Give you a clue Flip: Fish
    Last edited by marshall; 11th Mar 2018 at 16:03.
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  3. #3
    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ caller's Avatar
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    I don't think people are scared anymore judging by what I see on fb and elsewhere. A friends page main pic is a poster saying 'Down with Thai Dictatorship. Prawit is openly mocked as is the senior police officer leading the poaching case. My other half regularly receives and sends such mocking material and I doubt this new law will make any difference and could even backfire on the Generals for any obvious political jailing's, which is what they clearly envisage.

    Dictatorships survive because of fear, when that's gone, there's not much else.
    'Tis me

  4. #4
    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ Flip's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure on that one Caller, out with some Thai friends recently, they refused to talk about politics until we left the restaurant. Whatever, one thing I have noticed is a weariness of Prayut's rule and the constant postmonements of the election - as I understand it the November date is now doubtful. I wonder how long it will be before this playing around with the election date actually backfires on Prayut and promotes a re-surgence of groups like the red shirts etc.

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    Indeed, anyone sensible is very careful what they say and what they post.

  6. #6
    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ caller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip View Post
    out with some Thai friends recently, they refused to talk about politics until we left the restaurant.
    Yes, that's my experience as well. I didn't mean ordinary people mouthing off in public willy-nilly, but I would say that the numbers that are letting their views known is increasing. I see what my other half receives on fb and every now and again, there's stuff about Prawit or the poacher case and other stuff and she supported the coup (then) and hates Thaksin and his family with a vengeance.

    I think she's a pretty sensible lady, comfortable with her position.

    - - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Flip View Post
    I wonder how long it will be before this playing around with the election date actually backfires on Prayut and promotes a re-surgence of groups like the red shirts etc.
    I think it's ordinary people he should fear most. The whiff of double standards is tangible. Four years after the coup with a promise to stop corruption, the junta are embroiled it up to their necks and what the public can see is that nothing has changed.
    'Tis me

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    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ Flip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caller View Post
    I see what my other half receives on fb and every now and again, there's stuff about Prawit or the poacher case and other stuff and she supported the coup (then) and hates Thaksin and his family with a vengeance.
    I get the feeling that Prayut has come to enjoy the power he's had as PM and is trying to make sure he stays on by winning the election - only when he's sure of that will he decide on the date. What gobsmacked me was how the nation was stitched up in the vote on the constitution. Whoever the PM may be in the future, the army it seems, will always be in control. Banning campaigning during the run up to the vote made sure that a large proportion of the electorate had no idea what they were actually voting for.

    I always saw through Taksin and his vote buying techniques and like your wife, hated him. With the advent of the new constitution I think it is now more unlikely than ever that Thailand will ever have a true democracy. I also supported the coup when it happened if only to prevent what was possibly on the cards, civil war.

    Can I ask you Caller, when you refer to Prawit, is it actually Prawit Wongsuwan you mean, the defence minister? Or the PM, Prayut?

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    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ caller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip View Post
    I get the feeling that Prayut has come to enjoy the power he's had as PM and is trying to make sure he stays on by winning the election

    I always saw through Taksin and his vote buying techniques and like your wife, hated him. With the advent of the new constitution I think it is now more unlikely than ever that Thailand will ever have a true democracy.

    Can I ask you Caller, when you refer to Prawit, is it actually Prawit Wongsuwan you mean, the defence minister? Or the PM, Prayut?
    Okay, I'm no good at multi-quotes.

    What you are seeing is the military's final fling at eradicating support for Thaksin once and for all and ensuring the status quo of elites who effectively run the Country and take the spoils are never threatened again. Hence the new constitution that cedes authority to the army and an appointment of an independent PM. I include Abhasit in all of that. I believe it is a pre-planned, co-ordinated programme of events that started with Sutheps rabble rousers and support in blocking Parliament on any pretext that ultimately led to the coup with Thailand being 'ungovernable'. not that the Police or military did much to uphold the rule of law. Of course, Yingluck's Government didn't help themselves with their proposals.

    There is nothing radical in what I have said there, many Thai columnists and others now accept this as the bigger picture. Most of the new parties that have formed have said they support the military (quelle surprise) and some that have yet to be formed are already being labeled as anti-royalist and the like.

    But I wouldn't worry too much. Thailand has a new constitution on average, every 4 years or so. When constitution day comes around I always ask P which one she is celebrating?

    Thaksin has been massive for this Country and his legacy is everywhere. He did no more in buying votes that every other party did. My ex always said they would take the 200 baht from anyone who offered it and they all did, then decide who they would vote for. Basically Thaksin. In future years he will be recognised as the catalyst for change that Thailand so badly needs. For sure he was corrupt, as they all are, which still continues and he made clumsy appointments and serious tactical errors (one leading directly to the coup). But he has awakened an interest in politics and individual rights that will never go away - the rise of social media will ensure that.

    And with social media being such a threat, that if Prayut is elected as PM, you can be sure he will seek to control it, probably on some pretext of it's lack of 'Thainess'. But the genie is out of the lamp now, there are limits to what people will accept.

    Prawit as in the deputy PM (one of six). It's what he is universally known as here. The cronies that are meant to be investigating the watch scandal have yet again put back the day on which is expected to respond by, to the end of the month. No-one expects any action to be taken against him, thus fuelling the fall in support of the junta.
    'Tis me

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    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ Flip's Avatar
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    I think I'd generally agree with most of that Caller. Thaksin sure put the wind up the 'Elite's' but unlike his claims, he was no better and did what he did for his own benefit. The 'Elite's' will eventually have to cede some authority, wealth and freedoms to the people - as they have had to do all over the world.

    Many don't realise it but even in countries like the UK, the 'Elite's' are still in control, they've just had to be less visible and let us minions think we have a government 'of the people, by the people and for the people' - a great sentiment Abraham but one that will never come true.

  10. #10
    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ caller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip View Post
    The 'Elite's' will eventually have to cede some authority, wealth and freedoms to the people - as they have had to do all over the world.
    I agree with you, but I don't believe they will do that willingly. Politically interested Thais I know here still predict that there will be, 'big trouble in Thailand' (their words).

    It's risible really. We now have this 'young gun', 39 years old, running an incredibly successful business and always politically motivated, now talking about starting a new politically party. He appeared in an hour long facebook interview that has attracted more than 100,000 views and been interviewed in GQ magazine (no surprise considering Vorani is editor). He is of an age where around the World, others are leading their Countries, or are near to the centre of power, yet here he is patronisingly mocked for having no experience and being too young. Young being the operative word, as unlike in the West, there is no-one to represent them here. He will be a major threat, hence the warnings he is being watched and is anti-royalty. I doubt anyone will be taken in by that apart from extreme pro-royalists.
    'Tis me

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    Personally I feel that the current Government set up is the best for this country. Living and working here I can see that corruption is being attacked on many levels, the correct laws are now being applied, and I think this PM is doing a good job. If he wanted he could use his Section 44 powers far more widely, but he does not. I also believe that this country is not ready to be a democracy.

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    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ caller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James HKT View Post
    Personally I feel that the current Government set up is the best for this country. Living and working here I can see that corruption is being attacked on many levels, the correct laws are now being applied, and I think this PM is doing a good job. If he wanted he could use his Section 44 powers far more widely, but he does not. I also believe that this country is not ready to be a democracy.
    Well yes, if you support them, it's great. Apart from the fact pretty much everything is going wrong.

    Corruption being addressed at many levels? Surely, what you mean is not at the junta's level? Anything that is helpful to distract from that.

    He has only softened his stance on S44 because a) it's unpopular and criticised strongly by World leaders b) he wants to stay in power and c) his popularity has hit the ground.

    So why isn't Thailand ready for a democracy? Or do you really mean to say the army isn't ready for a democracy? As the people seem quite happy to vote in elections, its just a few with guns and things that don't like it when they believe their interests are threatened.

    Are you a mole?
    Last edited by caller; 14th Mar 2018 at 05:07.
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  13. #13
    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ Flip's Avatar
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    Have to say I agree with Caller there. The Army were probably what the country needed at first but they have severely outstayed their welcome. They only want to appear to be tackling corruption but, and this is nothing new, they are almost certainly very much wrapped up in it themselves. At a lower level - I've heard more than one story about the army 'fining' motorists in much the same way as the police used to do.

    Almost every Thai I speak to says the same thing - elections are overdue and they don't want Prayut to run for PM.

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    Caller, I don't really support any of them, and am often reminded that as a foreigner it's none of my business anyway. My company is quite well known down here and we deal with many local government departments. I have observed many "favours" in the past for a bit of tea money, or a lot of tea money, just aren't done anymore. The dodgy officers aren't normally fired, they are normally sent somewhere like Pattani, or somewhere they really don't want to be. So corruption on a local level I guess is being addressed, and for the rest of it I only read what you read.

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    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ caller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James HKT View Post
    I have observed many "favours" in the past for a bit of tea money, or a lot of tea money, just aren't done anymore. The dodgy officers aren't normally fired, they are normally sent somewhere like Pattani, or somewhere they really don't want to be.
    Well Phuket has always been somewhat different to the rest of Thailand and that's sure not happening here and nothing has changed in Korat, from the stories I here and personal experience. My other half's company is very well know in Thailand and she is a senior officer having to deal with tax offices / officers and others. She hates corruption and she doesn't sometimes like her job very much.
    'Tis me

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    Caller, a lot of our stuff involves the Land Department. The change in attitudes have come over the last couple of years. There was a very high profile case last year where a then retired Land Department official had been arrested on the charge of illegally upgrading land titles from basic forest land to full chanotes. Unfortunately he " killed himself" in gaol, although popular believe is he was helped along the way. I am not saying the corruption has stopped, but it has changed.

    I think you are quite right Phuket has always been a special case and now we have a big spotlight on the province.

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    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ Flip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James HKT View Post
    There was a very high profile case last year where a then retired Land Department official had been arrested on the charge of illegally upgrading land titles from basic forest land to full chanotes. Unfortunately he " killed himself" in gaol, although popular believe is he was helped along the way.
    Yes, wasn't he the one that was supposed to have hanged himself but his body was covered in cuts and bruises? Its a bit like the Frenchman on Koh Tao that managed to hang himself with his hands tied behind his back.

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    Flip, yes that's the chap.

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