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  1. #41
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangesoup View Post
    ... In my opinion if it is clearly shown in a Passport of an ID card that a person is known by more than by one name then there is a Duty on the Authorities to make reasonable changes to their procedures to accomodate such ...
    Actually, the onus is on the traveller to provide correct and accurate information. There are now statutory and international requirements which place obligations on airlines and travellers to provide API - advance passenger information. That information must be accurate and it must be exactly as it appears in the travel document the traveller intends to use to travel. Having an endorsement in the passport or ID Card confirming a passenger is known by another name will not always be sufficient to satisfy the API obligation. Indeed many airlines now stipulate in their Conditions of Carriage that the name on the booking must be the same as in the travel document.

    If an airline denies boarding because you have failed to provide API or because the name on the travel document is not the same as in the booking then there is slim chance of a court awarding compensation as it will be the traveller who has failed in his duty to provide the prerequisite information during the booking process in accordance with both international regulations and the airlines Conditions of Carriage.

    In times gone by I would have agreed you with you but, alas, times they are a changing. Your argument might carry weight for domestic flights or where no API is required. Where API is required then your argument is weak legally and the risk is that the traveller who provides inaccurate information is now more likely to be denied boarding or face a 'name change' fee at the airport - and that may not always be possible for travel to certain countries where API is required.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangesoup View Post
    ... It is wise to attempt to have all travel documents in a single name however this may from time to time not prove possible.
    I would now say in today's climate it is essential to have the travel tickets and booking in exactly the same name as the principal name shown in the travel document to be used for the journey. In fact I cannot see a situation where/why this cannot be done.
    Tobias - โทเบียส
    If you want to know where I am, follow me on my Thailand-UK Blog.

  2. #42
    R.I.P. ddwjg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangesoup View Post
    In my wife's instance of having 2 passports issued in 2 different names in only becomes revelant for travel that includes Thailand at some stage - all other travelling is done on her British Passport.
    Always travel on the British passport. Simple. When passing Thai immigration(nothing to do with flight tickets) use the Thai passport. Simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangesoup View Post
    Flight tickets are purchased in England and therefore the Contract established is in accordance with English Law - if (say) prevented from boarding a flight in Bangkok as a consequence of differening names - any financial redress would be sought in England.
    As Tobias has tried to point out, many airlines stipulate in their T & C's with regards to anomolies in travel documentation. If this is the case with the airline you are using, you would have no case for financial redress.

    Dave.

  3. #43
    Orangesoup
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    Thanks for your comments Tobias and ddwjp,

    I haven't had time yet to go thru my paperwork to find what form one requests for the additional name/info to be placed in a passport.

    However in relation to the Legal points raised -

    yes they may be in the Terms & Conditions however if a Supplier fails to bring them to the attention of a Consumer (a member of the General Public) at the point a Contact was Effected then they can not be replied on at a later date. They are in Law a Post Contractual Term and can not be enforced in a Court of Law and I would Invite a Judge to Find Such.

  4. #44
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangesoup View Post
    ... However in relation to the Legal points raised -

    yes they may be in the Terms & Conditions however if a Supplier fails to bring them to the attention of a Consumer (a member of the General Public) at the point a Contact was Effected then they can not be replied on at a later date. They are in Law a Post Contractual Term and can not be enforced in a Court of Law and I would Invite a Judge to Find Such.
    You are attempting to apply a very basic interpretation of the relevant law. You appear not to appreciate an airline has statutory and regulatory international obligations which it cannot ignore.

    In law there is a fundamental and very important principle 'ignorantia juris non excusat' - that is 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'. That principle applies here. When you make a booking with an airline you make a declaration that you accept the Conditions of Carriage - whether you read them or not is irrelevant - you have agreed to abide by those terms.

    Whilst you are correct in the principle that post-contract terms cannot "usually" be enforcerd (although there are exceptions to this) - we are not talking about post-contract changes here.

    As this could be a very expensive error, I will reiterate, it is essential to have the travel tickets and booking in exactly the same name as the principal name shown in the travel document to be used for the journey.
    Tobias - โทเบียส
    If you want to know where I am, follow me on my Thailand-UK Blog.

  5. #45
    Orangesoup
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    As posted by Tobias

    name on the booking must be the same as in the travel document.
    Travel Document as in Passport? If a second name is included in a Passport then this requirement is satisfied.

    that the traveller who provides inaccurate information is now more likely to be denied boarding
    This is not pertinent in any instance involving my wife. All information supplied to the Agent and Airline has been full and accurate.

    That information must be accurate and it must be exactly as it appears in the travel document the traveller intends to use to travel.
    There may be scope for inaccurancy as a consequence of inadequacies of the data fields used within the Computerised Airline Ticketing System

    If an airline denies boarding because you have failed to provide API or because the name on the travel document is not the same as in the booking then there is slim chance of a court awarding compensation as it will be the traveller who has failed in his duty to provide the prerequisite information during the booking process in accordance with both international regulations and the airlines Conditions of Carriage.
    Again the above paragraph is not pertinent in any instance involving my wife. All information supplied to the Agent and Airline has been full and accurate.

    As posted by ddwjp

    When passing Thai immigration(nothing to do with flight tickets) use the Thai passport. Simple
    I can confirm that my wife has never experienced a problem with Immigration only some local difficulty at the Check-in desk.

    I remain confident that should it ever come to pass that my wife and party were forced to make alternative travel arrangement as a consequence of Check-In staff refusing to allow my wife to board a flight that the Airline/Travel Agent or Credit Card provider (always pay the first 100GBP of the Plane Ticket by Credit Card to be covered by Section 75 of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act) would be Liable to reimburse all financial losses suffered by my wife and party.

  6. #46
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    As this could be a very expensive error, I will reiterate, it is essential to have the travel tickets and booking in exactly the same name as the principal name shown in the travel document intended to be used for the journey.

    That is my advice and nothing you say will cause me to change it. You are flogging a dead horse Orange
    Tobias - โทเบียส
    If you want to know where I am, follow me on my Thailand-UK Blog.

  7. #47
    Orangesoup
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    Thank you for your opinion Tobias - deadhorses deserved to be flogged. Lazy Brutes.

  8. #48
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    Orangesoup, might I suggest you put a hold on this post until you find the time to go through your paperwork and can provide said form that allows you to add another name to a passport or actually post the passport that has two names in it, then the world and his wife will be hushed and you would have won the argument
    Champions 20|13

  9. #49
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary & Nok View Post
    ... put a hold on this post until you find the time to go through your paperwork and can provide said form that allows you to add another name to a passport or actually post the passport that has two names in it, then the world and his wife will be hushed ...
    There is no issue Gary regarding the ability to have an endorsement in a British passport stipulating that the holder "A" is 'also known as' name "B". My comment was that I hadn't noticed this could be done on the passport application form - like you can with the ID Card.

    The issue here is which name should be used when booking international travel. My advice is that it is essential to have the travel tickets and booking in exactly the same name as the principal name shown in the travel document intended to be used for the journey i.e. name "A" - especially so when API is a requirement for travel.

    This could save a great deal of time, heartache and expense. Whilst a passport might have an endorsement showing the holder is also know by name "B", the passport itself is in the principal name "A" which is the name printed on the data information page that is swiped or scanned at the airport - it is that name which should be used in the booking - not the 'also known as' name "B". To use name "B" may cause all kinds of problems for the traveller.

    At the end of the day the person's legal name is "A"; "B" is only a name they are also known as, but that does not stop their legal name from being "A".

    I cannot see why any name other than name "A" shown on the data page of the passport needs to be used when making a booking in any event. Why create yourself a potential problem you really do not need?
    Tobias - โทเบียส
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  10. #50
    Premium Member Phetchy's Avatar
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    So presumably if one's spouse has changed her name on her ID to her husbands, but has not changed it on her passport, even though tickets could be bought in her maiden name (using the passport as ID), she would not be able to get a visa as the names on passport/ID do not correlate?

  11. #51
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    Sorry Tobias, totally missed the point (again)

    I for one, after the potential disaster of buying a ticket for Nok using married name even though she did not yet have her British passport, would not want to jeopardise any flight by causing any naming confusion.
    Too much of a costly disaster, let alone the heartache of not being able to fly.
    Champions 20|13

  12. #52
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phetchabun expat View Post
    So presumably if one's spouse has changed her name on her ID to her husbands, but has not changed it on her passport, even though tickets could be bought in her maiden name (using the passport as ID), she would not be able to get a visa as the names on passport/ID do not correlate?
    Don't confuse the issue Phetchymeowdson!

    I am referring to airline ticket bookings only - whatever name the travel document is in (more often than not a passport) then that is the name to use when booking travel - it does not matter if it is the maiden name if that is the name in the travel document.

    When applying for a visa you should also use the same name as in the passport used for the application. As for the ID and Passport - the correlation would be made by producing the marriage certificate. That is satisfactory for visa applications and for proving a change of name. The separate issue is specifically about which name to use when booking travel - in this day of heightened security and API regulations failure to use the name in the travel document (name "A" in my example above) could lead to denied boarding, delay or an expensive name change on the booking.
    Tobias - โทเบียส
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  13. #53
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangesoup View Post
    ... the Airline/Travel Agent or Credit Card provider (always pay the first 100GBP of the Plane Ticket by Credit Card to be covered by Section 75 of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act) would be Liable to reimburse all financial losses suffered by my wife and party.
    Slightly off topic but an important legal point to be made here. You can actually pay just £1 on the credit card! As long as the total transaction is for more than £100 then the provisions of Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 apply - it does not matter how much is purchased 'on credit' as long as the value of the total transaction is over £100.

    For example, you buy a TV from ABC Limited for £3,000 - you pay say £1 on a credit card and the balance of £2,999 in cash or in kind - if anything went wrong with the transaction the purchaser would be protected for the full amount and could claim against the credit card company for the £3,000!!

    Another important point, if you use an agent to purchase a flight ticket and a flight is delayed or cancelled or you are denied boarding you could not claim protection under Section 75. Section 75 also does not apply to PayPal or Google Money or similar type payments even if you use a credit card for the transaction.
    Tobias - โทเบียส
    If you want to know where I am, follow me on my Thailand-UK Blog.

  14. #54
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    Don't confuse the issue Phetchymeowdson!

    I am referring to airline ticket bookings only - whatever name the travel document is in (more often than not a passport) then that is the name to use when booking travel - it does not matter if it is the maiden name if that is the name in the travel document.

    When applying for a visa you should also use the same name as in the passport used for the application. As for the ID and Passport - the correlation would be made by producing the marriage certificate. That is satisfactory for visa applications and for proving a change of name. The separate issue is specifically about which name to use when booking travel - in this day of heightened security and API regulations failure to use the name in the travel document (name "A" in my example above) could lead to denied boarding, delay or an expensive name change on the booking.
    As I mentioned in an earlier post, the wife flew back to BKK on Wednesday, after I booked her in via the Eva website under her married name. Her Passport was under her maiden name - my blunder. After ringing Eva they said that I should bring along the marriage certificate as 'proof' of name change.

    We had no problems at the Eva check in bar from a slight delay as the a phone call was made and a bloke collected the passport and marriage certificate (Uk translation) to photocopy the documents. To save any future hassles I'd do as Tobias suggests.

    As an aside I tried to open a joint Bank account at NatWest on the same day with a utility bill in our joint married name, her passport (maiden name) and her Thai ID card (married name). Computer says No as far as NatWest is concerned. Her ID card was useless because it was not 'from Europe'. Natwest's words not mine. I don't understand this utility bill thing as a form of ID? Just means I've got to ring NPower up and say can you change the name from 'married' to 'maiden' and take back to the Bank and everyone is happy as this will match the passport.

  15. #55
    Orangesoup
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    Hi

    This afternoon I just have gone thru a slimmed down folder that we kept for Citizenship purposes and the info I'm trying to locate isn't there.

    Used a search engine and up came Wikipedia with this entry in relation to Britsih Passports (we all know how (un)reliable Wikipedia is).... I will continue to look on the Net for more useful information

    The holder is or Holder is also known as ...
    This endorsement is found in passports where the holder uses or retains another professional name or has an academic, feudal or legal title. The styling 'Dr ...', 'Professor ...' or similar is recorded here, or the alternative professional name. For example, Cliff Richard's birth name was Harry Webb. Ergo, his passport would read:
    "Holder is also known as Cliff Richard."[citation needed]

  16. #56
    Orangesoup
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    Changing to your husband’s last name

    If you are married and wish to change to your last name to your husband’s last name or want your passport to have the observation ‘the holder is also known as’ you must provide:

    • your original marriage certificate and
    • your old passport.
    Link http://ukinthailand.fco.gov.uk/en/he...port-documents

    The endorsement in my wife's British Passportof ‘the holder is also known as’ was performed by the Staff at the Bangkok Embassy.

    As far I can recall it was a simple process; I telephoned the Bangkok Embassy and spoke to a Thai female who then spoke to my wife, after taking advice, we posted off our marriage certificate and my wife's Thai and British Passports with a covering letter to the Bangkok Embassy. 10 days later or so the documents were returned by Post with "the holder is also known as’ last name matching my wife's Thai Passport surname. From memory I believe the only fee paid was for the postage.

    I apologise if I have inadvertlenty given the impression that the above procedure was performed in the United Kingdom.

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