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brazy
13th Sep 2016, 18:39
Hi to you all :wai: firstly i want to say how fantastic this forum is and that so many people are willing to help:clap: but it has scared me:confused: i had no idea how difficult it would be to get a visit visa for the UK, not just paperwork but emotionally!

if anyone could offer any advice on my situation i would be very grateful.

i met my girlfriend on-line in October 2015, at that time i was planning to visit Thailand for 5 weeks and wanted a friend to spend time with, so i flew out to see her in November and spent 6 amazing weeks with her (6 weeks because i broke my wrist) we have continued to build our relationship online, phone etc. and i have just got back from a 2 week trip to see her and her family, i desperately want her to come and stay with me for 6 months so we can progress our relationship further, however after researching visitor and fiancee visas i am worried she will be refused.

so this is my problem,

she has no income as she works on the family farm, they are self sufficient.
i have no income because i have sold my business and im currently living off my savings and plan to do so for the next 12 months.

she has no property or land in her name although she is an only child so she will inherit the lot one day.
i do own my own house and have sufficient savings for a VV but not a fiancee visa (£62500 what!!)

she has no children and never travelled outside of Thailand

we have only known each other for 11 months and spent a total of 8 weeks together.

she is 25 and i am 43

our intention is to get married but we would both like to spend time together in the uk first and not be rushed in to anything because of visas!

if anyone has ideas or experiences with obtaining a VV in similar circumstances can you please let me know what documents, letters i could submit to give us a good chance?

holty
13th Sep 2016, 19:30
Welcome to the forum brazy
You have come to the right place to get the best advice

Your biggest problem you are going to have is to convince immigration that your girlfriend will return back to Thailand
Like your girlfriend needs to show strong commitments to her family to return back to Thailand
No reason to return back to Thailand is a big failure

I will say don't put down on your application you request 6 months.
If you put down 2 weeks, makes your application very strong
Her visa will be issued for 6 months anyway.
So you can let her stay longer
Just explain in your next application why you extended her stay

I made the mistake of asking for 6 months for my girlfriend, i was wrongly advised by someone
Just be very truthful with everything.
Most ladies in Thailand are paid cash in hand
My gf had no wage slips, i showed 6 months wage slips and bank statements
I showed proof of money transfers also to her bank account

Just read the frogsters guide on here, and you wont go wrong
Loads of good people on here will give you good advice

brazy
13th Sep 2016, 20:02
I will say don't put down on your application you request 6 months.
If you put down 2 weeks, makes your application very strong
Her visa will be issued for 6 months anyway.
So you can let her stay longer
Just explain in your next application why you extended her stay

thanks Holty, that makes prefect sense, i think its these things that can make the difference :D


Your biggest problem you are going to have is to convince immigration that your girlfriend will return back to Thailand
Like your girlfriend needs to show strong commitments to her family to return back to Thailand
No reason to return back to Thailand is a big failure

The only thing i can think of is to try and get her father to put some land in her name, if that would help? but i assume it would be seen as an attempt to help with the application as the transfer date would be just before the application is submitted.
other than that all i can think of is family commitments like looking after her grandma that has diabetes and will soon have to go in dialysis, and working on the farm but how can i prove that? would a letter from her parents help?

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she also has a university loan that needs to be repaid, should she put this in the application? the loan is secured on some of the family land so she has to pay it back. not sure this is a good reason to return though!

rasg
13th Sep 2016, 20:03
i met my girlfriend on-line in October 2015, at that time i was planning to visit Thailand for 5 weeks and wanted a friend to spend time with, so i flew out to see her in November and spent 6 amazing weeks with her (6 weeks because i broke my wrist) we have continued to build our relationship online, phone etc. and i have just got back from a 2 week trip to see her and her family, i desperately want her to come and stay with me for 6 months so we can progress our relationship further, however after researching visitor and fiancee visas i am worried she will be refused.

so this is my problem,

she has no income as she works on the family farm, they are self sufficient.
i have no income because i have sold my business and im currently living off my savings and plan to do so for the next 12 months.

she has no property or land in her name although she is an only child so she will inherit the lot one day.
i do own my own house and have sufficient savings for a VV but not a fiancee visa (£62500 what!!)

she has no children and never travelled outside of Thailand

we have only known each other for 11 months and spent a total of 8 weeks together.

she is 25 and i am 43

our intention is to get married but we would both like to spend time together in the uk first and not be rushed in to anything because of visas!

if anyone has ideas or experiences with obtaining a VV in similar circumstances can you please let me know what documents, letters i could submit to give us a good chance?

You need proof of relationship, enough cash to fund the holiday and a reason that your GF will return to Thailand. That is essentially it.

I met my, now, wife at the end of January last year an visited Thai and I visited Thailand a few times and we applied for her visit visa last May/June and we requested a months holiday and used a letter from her employer as her main reason to return. She stayed 14 weeks as her job fell by the wayside with the flooding and poor weather.

She applied for a 3 year visit visa on my fourth trip back to Thailand last October and requested a 6 week Christmas trip which was granted with no problems. By then I was financially supporting her and made sure I mentioned it in my sponsor letter. She stayed 11 weeks up until the 15th February.

Despite having a 3 year visit visa her 180 days were up. Yes I know it is a guideline that the border force seem to stick to but your GF won’t be allowed to spend more than 180 days in a 12 month period.

After my GF went back to Thailand in February 2016 she wouldn’t have been allowed back into the UK until July 2016 and I was simply too busy with my business to go back to Thailand for any length of time. There is no visa that is between a VV and a marriage (Settlement) visa to allow a Thai national to stay in the UK more than 6 months in any one year. We were stuck and we wanted to be together so we decided to get married.

Towards the end of February we submitted a Settlement (M) visa that lasts for six months and we had to get married in that period and then the next Further Leave to Remain visa last for 30 month but we have just applied for that in the UK.

We are now married and my wife is now on the road to Indefinite Leave to Remain in five years time.

You will need deep pockets to finance the whole thing...

Visit visa - £85 ish
Thai/English translations if you need them. (Divorce papers etc).

Settlement Visa - £1200 ish
TB test - 3300 baht
English language test - £150

Further leave to remain - £813.00
NHS surcharge - £500

I think it would be a big mistake to request six months on a first visit visa as I don't think your GF will get it. If you request, say a month, and she then stays longer it's not a problem as long as you explain why in your next visa application.

One of the main reasons I have told you all this is to give you an idea of what you are letting yourself in for. I am self employed and I am presuming that you are too and if you apply for a Settlement (M) marriage visa you will need your accounts up until the April 2016. Not for later this year. We applied for my, (now) wife's settlement visa in February this year but relied on accounts from 2014 - 2015. It allows you to use your accounts before you sold your business.

You could, (in theory:D), go for a settlement visa up until early March next year without having an income.

What does your GF do for cash? Surely she has a salary of some description?

brazy
13th Sep 2016, 20:57
thanks for the onfo and warning Rasg, but the cost of the visa isn't important especially when you compare it to travelling back and forth to Thailand!


We applied for my, (now) wife's settlement visa in February this year but relied on accounts from 2014 - 2015. It allows you to use your accounts before you sold your business

i spoke to an English lawyer earlier and they said i couldn't use 14/15 accounts so that's interesting that immigration accepted yours and could help me a lot! :)


What does your GF do for cash? Surely she has a salary of some description?

my GF works on her parents farm and lives with her grandma, she doesn't receive a salary but they give her money when she needs it, basically she is poor :(

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she does do the occasional graphic design work, logo and leaflet design etc but this is paid in cash so impossible to prove

rasg
13th Sep 2016, 21:11
I don't think traveling to and from Thailand is that expensive. I have taken Emirates flights from Bangkok to Heathrow and back for less than £500. Flying internally within Thailand is dirt cheap.

Being poor isn’t a problem for her is fine as long as you are willing to finance her. The tricky bit is a reason to return. Having said that there must be many other people who have been in the same situation. I have no doubt at all that it's possible.

Proof of relationship should be anything that ties you together since you met. Skype/Whatsapp logs. Flight tickets/boarding cards and hotel bookings taken together. I keep hearing that the latest advice is not to supply photos but that is virtually all we had for our first visit visa.

We never provided any bank details for my then GF at all.

i spoke to an English lawyer earlier and they said i couldn't use 14/15 accounts so that's interesting that immigration accepted yours and could help me a lot!

You can’t use 2014/15 accounts now but 2015/16 are absolutely fine. 15/16 accounts are no problem at all until next February/March. You need to use the latest accounts available. I always leave mine until January and this year for the first time ever I am totally up to date as I needed the accounts for the latest visa.:D

brazy
13th Sep 2016, 21:50
I have no doubt at all that it's possible:thumb:

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Just read the frogsters guide on here, and you wont go wrong

has anyone got a link to the frogsters guide, i cant find it :(

rasg
13th Sep 2016, 22:03
I think it's normally on a sticky close to the top of this forum. It doesn't seem to be there.

steve187
14th Sep 2016, 01:10
hi and welcome, i can not help with visit visa's and my experience with settlement visa'a is well out of date, all i can say is keep as many records of contact/communication, details of flights, skype records, LINE contact, photo's etc. between the two of you, you can never have too much information regarding your relationship.
all the best

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http://thailand-uk.com/forums/showthread.php?14713-How-to-Obtain-a-Settlement-Visa-for-the-UK-(Revised-July-2012)

Barnet
14th Sep 2016, 01:28
Welcome and good luck with your case. From an immigration official's view this is what they will question. This isn't me doubting you its just what you will need to address.

If she has no income because she works on the family farm how would she manage to pay for university?
I know you said she has some type of student loan but I worked in a Thai uni and I never came across such things. One of my students' parents was a security guard. He earnt 8k per month which begged the question how on earth could he pay for her to study. The answer was that she worked all the hours God sent in order to finance the course. I could well be wrong as I didn't look for them but I never heard any students talking about loans. If she did indeed receive a bank loan she must have had some collateral to use.

They may in fact not question it at all but it appears there are some discrepencies in the income section.

I would take my time and make sure I had all the details and facts in front of me first. You said that you sold up and have some time on your hands. Would another trip out here be a bad idea? Get some more information for yourself.

brazy
14th Sep 2016, 02:35
Hi Barnet, thanks for your concern and i know what you are saying and i do appreciate it, things have defiantly happen fast and its easy for emotions to take over, believe me i have had many disapproving looks and comments from friends and family and i know they are looking out for me but they haven't met this girl.

i will ask her more about the funding for university but my understanding is that her parents borrowed money and secured it against land that she will inherit, so if she doesn't pay the loan she will lose the land! at the moment the land is being farmed by someone else (the lender, not a bank) and when the loan is paid back the land will be passed back to her parents.

this seems quite normal to me but i have no experience first hand however from a business point of view it works so i dont think its unusual, id like to hear if anyone else has come across this before?

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hi and welcome, i can not help with visit visa's and my experience with settlement visa'a is well out of date, all i can say is keep as many records of contact/communication, details of flights, skype records, LINE contact, photo's etc. between the two of you, you can never have too much information regarding your relationship.
all the best

thanks Steve hopefully i will need to apply for a settlement visa at some point, but the most important thing now is we spend time together, i have lost the first months communication due to losing my phone so i save and backup everything now!

Lipboy
14th Sep 2016, 06:56
Refer, Post #2 -

" I will say don't put down on your application you request 6 months.
If you put down 2 weeks, makes your application very strong
Her visa will be issued for 6 months anyway.
So you can let her stay longer
Just explain in your next application why you extended her stay."

In my experience (for 3 Visit Visa's) the above is VERY POOR ADVICE?

Visa's are NOT issued and then automatically valid for a stay of up to 6 months? Visa's have a START date (the date the Visa Office ISSUE'S the Visa in Bangkok) AND an EXPIRY date.

The visa start date commences on the date the visa is Issued in Bangkok which YOU (or your gf) CANNOT stipulate in advance. The start date is when the Visa office has time to process the application and all the applicant can do is apply in advance and hope the visa is Issued at a time in advance of the applicants departure. To help applicants the Visa office regularly (it used to be monthly?) updates its web-site stating the latest information on the estimated time you should allow for the application to be processed (and then Issued) prior to the applicants departure.

Each VV is issued with an EXPIRY date. This is NOT automatically 6 months later than the START (ISSUE) date. Neither is the expiry date automatically the date requested in the application?

On two out of the three VV for my then gf the expiry date was BEFORE the date requested on the two visa applications? This caused me considerable upset and I complained to Bangkok, the Home Office in London and my Member of Parliment but could not get the expiry dates changed. Each visa request was for about 2 months.

This forced changes to my forward holiday plans and bring forward my then gf's return flight to Thailand plus the extra expense involved in changing holiday plans and return flight dates.

If your gf ignores the VV expiry date then she will be classed as an "overstayer" and could be arrested and deported within 24 hours of this arrest. An "overstayer" is viewed very badly in any future UK visa application.

We conformed with the VV valid dates as I wanted to marry my gf and for her (and her daughter) to live here in the UK. They arrived here on Settlement Visa's 12 months ago.

If you want your gf to become your wife and obtain UK settlement you MUST NOT let her overstay any VV expiry date unless agreed beforehand with UK Immigration. In my experience once issued its very, very difficult (probably impossible?) to get the Visa expiry date changed?

I only overcame the error of the expiry date (Christmas Day 2014?) on the first VV by applying for the 2nd VV with a start date overlapping the expiry date on the 1st VV. However, the expiry date on the 2nd VV was before the date requested in the 2nd VV application? This caused me to ring forward my gf (and her daughter) return flight dates to Thailand?

Lucky
14th Sep 2016, 08:44
One of the best reasons you can give as a reason to return is to say you are considering marriage and therefore she would not do anything to jeopardise future applications.
This was actually told to me by the inerviewing officer, when after 2 failed attempts I managed to get my nose through the door as my (now) wife was coming out. You can't do that these days but the principal is the same. And sure enough she got the visa on her next application and it was for 6 months.

Gary & Nok
14th Sep 2016, 08:55
Refer, Post #2 -

" I will say don't put down on your application you request 6 months.
If you put down 2 weeks, makes your application very strong
Her visa will be issued for 6 months anyway.
So you can let her stay longer
Just explain in your next application why you extended her stay."

In my experience (for 3 Visit Visa's) the above is VERY POOR ADVICE? Why?
It is very common that once a visa is issued plans change.
The ECO's are aware of this and do not see this as a great problem as long as the applicant
1. Does not extract the urine, ask for 2 weeks and stay 6 months
2. Explains any (reasonable) additional time spent in the UK in a letter on the next visa application.



On two out of the three VV for my then gf the expiry date was BEFORE the date requested on the two visa applications? This caused me considerable upset and I complained to Bangkok, the Home Office in London and my Member of Parliment but could not get the expiry dates changed. Each visa request was for about 2 months.
This to me suggests that you applied too early for the visa.
If a visa has a 6 month validity and your visa was issued and had an expiry date BEFORE the date you requested, surely this means you applied for the visa over 6 months before you needed it.
Or is my math wrong!


This forced changes to my forward holiday plans and bring forward my then gf's return flight to Thailand plus the extra expense involved in changing holiday plans and return flight dates.When making a visa application it clearly states that flights should not be booked PRIOR to the issuing of the visa.

It goes without saying that overstaying a visa expiry date is not good, also if any lies are told and found out then a 10 year exclusion on visa applications can be enforced.

Tell the truth, don't overstay. Simple.

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...believe me i have had many disapproving looks and comments from friends and family and i know they are looking out for me but they haven't met this girl.Oh believe me when I say, I am sure we have all been through this little experience.
Yes people are concerned, but at the end of the day it's your life to live as you please. You only get one so don't have any regrets.


i will ask her more about the funding for university but my understanding is that her parents borrowed money and secured it against land that she will inherit, so if she doesn't pay the loan she will lose the land! at the moment the land is being farmed by someone else (the lender, not a bank) and when the loan is paid back the land will be passed back to her parents.

this seems quite normal to me but i have no experience first hand however from a business point of view it works so i dont think its unusual, id like to hear if anyone else has come across this before?I don't have any experience of this but it does sound quite a sensible and reasonable arrangement.

brazy
14th Sep 2016, 08:58
Hi Lipboy thanks for taking the time to tell me about your experience with VV


Refer, Post #2 -

" I will say don't put down on your application you request 6 months.
If you put down 2 weeks, makes your application very strong
Her visa will be issued for 6 months anyway.
So you can let her stay longer
Just explain in your next application why you extended her stay."

In my experience (for 3 Visit Visa's) the above is VERY POOR ADVICE?

there is always a catch!!

im a bit confused now and wondered if others can confirm which is correct? this could have been a massive mistake if i put down 2 weeks but planed for 6 months!!



so what if i planned a holiday in the schengen zone during my GF VV to the UK?

for example if i request a start date of November 1st and asked for 2 weeks in the UK and she arrived in the UK on the 2nd then on the 7th we went to Europe for 1 month on a Schengen visa would she be able to return to the UK for the remaining 7 days? or would i have to ask for 6 weeks?

Tobias
14th Sep 2016, 09:05
... has anyone got a link to the frogsters guide, i cant find it :(

I think it's normally on a sticky close to the top of this forum. It doesn't seem to be there.

It's still there:

How to Obtain a Settlement Visa for the UK (Revised July 2012) (http://thailand-uk.com/forums/showthread.php?14713-How-to-Obtain-a-Settlement-Visa-for-the-UK-(Revised-July-2012))

Gary & Nok
14th Sep 2016, 10:06
im a bit confused now and wondered if others can confirm which is correct? this could have been a massive mistake if i put down 2 weeks but planed for 6 months!!You should put down what you are planning for, anything else is lying and if caught a 10 year visa ban possible.

Having said that, plans change etc. etc. as I mentioned before. Just don't take the pee (apply 2 weeks, stay 6 months) and you should be OK.


for example if i request a start date of November 1st and asked for 2 weeks in the UK and she arrived in the UK on the 2nd then on the 7th we went to Europe for 1 month on a Schengen visa would she be able to return to the UK for the remaining 7 days?As long as the visa is a "multi entry" visa then there is no reason she could not go to Europe (providing all Schengen visa etc. are in place) with you and then re-enter the UK after that trip. (Check the visa when you get it and don't plan the Europe trip until you do).

A problem with going to Europe is that she would be applying to come to the UK, supposedly to see what it is like prior to marriage and settlement, so how is more than half of the visa spent outside of the UK achieving that?
Something that would need to be addressed on the next visa application and another potential hurdle you are placing in front of yourself.


or would i have to ask for 6 weeks?You would need to ask for the amount of time that covered her first day arriving in the UK and the day she finally departs from the UK, regardless of where she is in between those dates.

rasg
14th Sep 2016, 10:36
What threw me about the sticky is the title of the thread. The OP is after a Standard Visit Visa, not a Settlement Visa. If there is info in there about VVs the title could be better?

In my experience (for 3 Visit Visa's) the above is VERY POOR ADVICE?

Visa's are NOT issued and then automatically valid for a stay of up to 6 months? Visa's have a START date (the date the Visa Office ISSUE'S the Visa in Bangkok) AND an EXPIRY date.

The visa start date commences on the date the visa is Issued in Bangkok which YOU (or your gf) CANNOT stipulate in advance. The start date is when the Visa office has time to process the application and all the applicant can do is apply in advance and hope the visa is Issued at a time in advance of the applicants departure. To help applicants the Visa office regularly (it used to be monthly?) updates its web-site stating the latest information on the estimated time you should allow for the application to be processed (and then Issued) prior to the applicants departure.

Each VV is issued with an EXPIRY date. This is NOT automatically 6 months later than the START (ISSUE) date. Neither is the expiry date automatically the date requested in the application?

This is simply not true. On my wife's first Visit Visa, because we didn't ask for a specific date, UKVI made the start date of the visa the date that they received the application. On the next application, we applied in October and specified the 1st December as the start date and that is exactly what we received.

In the first case the visa visa's expiry was exactly six months after it's start date. Our 2nd VV was exactly three years after the 1st December date that we specified. The same with the Settlement (M) fiancée visa. 8th March to 8th September.

On an initial VV as I have already said and it has been repeated, I would not recommend that you ask for more than a month. We had no problems getting one and the letter from her employer explaining that her job would still be open.

A word about the Schengen visa. Why complicate things? So many places to see in the UK. We haven't ventured further afield than the UK yet. I got so fed up with the merry-go-round of visas we even went to Jersey for our honeymoon and we didn't even have to show our passports.

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I would also suggest that you wait to buy any tickets until after you have the visa. Also having a ticket that corresponds to the time you request on the visa would be sensible. If you are planning for your GF to stay longer than the time you request, booking a flight using those dates would be the best thing to do.

If she turned up in the UK with a ticket where the return is six months away and you requested a one month holiday, they might not let her into the UK. Make sure you buy a ticket that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg to change the flight dates.

In our experience when the wife arrived at Heathrow the first time they asked her a lot of questions. Subsequent trips she breezed through.

Lipboy
14th Sep 2016, 11:48
Refer, Post #14 -

"This to me suggests that you applied too early for the visa.
If a visa has a 6 month validity and your visa was issued and had an expiry date BEFORE the date you requested, surely this means you applied for the visa over 6 months before you needed it.
Or is my math wrong!"

.........................................................................................................................................................

The VV has a start date (the "Issue Date") and an Expiry Date. My gf (now wife) did NOT apply to early. From memory it was about 10 weeks prior to her planned departure date (for a requested 2 month stay in the UK, covering from early December 2014 to just before the end of January 2015). The Expiry Date issue was Christmas Day so nearly 5 weeks shorter than in the application?

Despite my protests I could not get this visa expiry date changed? So, we then applied for another VV for my "now wife" plus her daughter overlapping Christmas Day and requesting an Expiry Date in mid-May, I.e. about 5 months. Despite this request the Visa was Issued with an Expiry Date 2 days before the Expiry Date requested? This was despite in my Sponsors letter I explained that the first VV was issued 5 weeks short of the requested Expiry Date (i.e. Christmas Day not towards the end of January?).

After thd 2nd VV was Issued, again not complying with my requested dates, I first complained using the E.mail address for complaints to the British Embassy / Visa Application Office in Bangkok and received a long reply but with no worthwhile explanation of their mistakes on two separate visa applications but only non valid excuses why the visa's were issued ignoring the requested UK visit dates?

I then took this same complaint to the Home Office in London using their on line complaints system. This was sent to Bangkok and the Home Office just referred me to their E.mail to me. I then E.mailed the Home Office again stating I was not satisfied with their handling of my complaint against Bangkok but I just received a similar letter to their fist reply? I then contacted London again stating I was not satisfied with them just referring my complant to Bangkok and I stated that their complaints system simply was not satisfactory and did not act on my behalf but just defended their staff in Bangkok without any question raised on my behalf?

I then took this complaint to my MP who agreed with the justification of complaint after I showed them my Sponsors letter that EMPHATICALLY requested the Expiry Date in May 2015 and pointed out the first VV was issued with an Expiry Date of Christmas Day although the application was for nearly 5 weeks later? Also I showed my MP all my complaints correspondence.

My MP had no better success with his Home Office contacts in London than I did so we simply have up.

There is NO INDEPENDENT complaints procedure.

i agree I should not have booked my wife and her daughter's return flights to Thailand in advance of knowing the Visa expiry date in May 2015 but I did not expect Bangkok to make the same error again ESPECIALLY after taking extra, extra care doing the 2nd VV application.

A VV is NOT automatically valid for 6 months after the Start Date (I.e. the Issue Date in the Visa Application Office in Bangkok) BUT only valid until the VV Expiry Date.

Yes, plans do change but the Visa Expiry Date does NOT change. You can appeal to have the Expiry Date changed but I can almost guarantee this appeal with not succeed without a very, very good reason involving life or death decisions. It's simply not acceptable for your gf to become an "overstayer" if you want her to be treated well in any future UK visa application.

Between the VV Start Date and the VV Expiry Date the visa holder is entitled to as many entries and as many exits of the U.K. as they desire as VV are multi entry type visa's NOT single entry visa's.

Refer, Post #18

Visa application procedures are tightening year on year and I suspect you are talking about applications a few years ago?

rasg
14th Sep 2016, 12:46
Refer, Post #18
Visa application procedures are tightening year on year and I suspect you are talking about applications a few years ago?

Nope. Three visas since last June.

I've never heard of anybody applying for a visa end date. Start date, I can understand.

I would be very interested to read your original sponsor letter with the dates you requested. There is no appeal on a visit visa refusal and I suspect no appeal on the dates that an ECO puts on a visa. No point in complaining at all.

As I explained in my earlier post, my wife's first VV start date was the date that UKVI received the application. Sadly for us, it ran out on the 12th December last year so, as our plans changed and we wanted to spend Christmas together, we simply applied for a three year visit visa that allowed her to come here for Christmas. I specified in my sponsor letter that we would like it to start on the 1st December. It was granted within a couple of weeks and the two visas that she had in her passport actually overlapped by 12 days.

brazy
14th Sep 2016, 12:56
Rasg thanks for the update


A word about the Schengen visa. Why complicate things?

i was just trying to buy us more time together but i agree i should keep things as simple as possible.

This is a bit long winded and i'm sure you guys have seen all this before but if you could have a read through my plan and let me know what you think i'd be very grateful

so based on the information i have received so far this is my plan:

1. i will gather as much info about our relationship as possible, this will include line chat and video calls, pictures (we have lots as we are both keen photographers), Facebook posts, flight details hotel bookings, details of my time in hospital in Thailand after i broke my wrist (she stayed with me in hospital) bank transfers and gifts, and explain how we met. this should be sufficient to show we have a legitimate relationship??


2. explain that she is essential to her family at this time and they need her to return to help look after her grandma and work on the farm so they can sell food to pay for the whole family to live, i will ask her parents to write a letter explaining this and that they support her financially in return for her efforts, then i will have it formally translated.
i will also explain that she wants to return to the UK and hope to settle here with me in the future so she wouldn't abuse the immigration rules in any way that could jeopardise this.
i will also explain that the family doesn't have any provisions to replace her at this time as she is an only child and this trip has come about very quickly.

3. i will transfer enough money in to her account so she can return home by her own means just in case things dont work out between us, i would think £1000 would cover this?

4. as i am not working at the moment i will give details of my savings which i have had for more than 6 months, i will also show bank statements proving my outgoings, a copy of my house deeds and any assets i own (car, motorhome, motorbike) i will also include a credit check report showing i have no debt.

5. provide details of her visit to the uk,

i will ask for a specific start date say December 10th and a leave date of 5th January (just under 1 month) explain that she will be living with me at my home address during this time and that the purpose of her visit is to build on our relationship and to experience Christmas and new year in the UK.

reserve flights for her through flightreservationforvisa.com/ but not pay for the flights until we have the visa. once we have the visa i will book and pay for the flights on the dates we specified (with a genuine plan for her to return on these dates ;) however if plans change we will check with immigration if its ok for her to stay longer on this VV once she is in the UK.

if you guys think this is the best approach and i haven't missed anything then i will get working!

I'll definitely let you know how i get on!

Thanks again for all your comments :D

Gary & Nok
14th Sep 2016, 13:42
3. i will transfer enough money in to her account so she can return home by her own means just in case things dont work out between us, i would think £1000 would cover this?I'm not sure this is such a good idea. If you do not send her money on a regular basis a huge sum of money hitting her bank account a few weeks before applying for a visa, although not a massive problem, might raise a red flag as to why now.

If it is something that you really want to do then I would suggest that you make a note of this in your sponsors letter and say a small amount of funds will be transferred prior to her departure from LOS to enable her to fund her transport/food etc. from home to the airport and back again on her return.


...however if plans change we will check with immigration if its ok for her to stay longer on this VV once she is in the UK.This suggests to me (with an ECO hat on) that you do not intend to return on the date specified and WILL "overstay" your requested date, so why are you not just requesting the date you REALLY want to return. Red Flag!

brazy
14th Sep 2016, 14:06
...however if plans change we will check with immigration if its ok for her to stay longer on this VV once she is in the UK.
This suggests to me (with an ECO hat on) that you do not intend to return on the date specified and WILL "overstay" your requested date, so why are you not just requesting the date you REALLY want to return. Red Flag!

to be honest i think that one month will be a good amount of time for her to get a feel of the UK and its winter! so she will be cold!! also 1 month would tie up the reason for her having to return to help with her farm, but if she wasn't home sick and her family could cope for a while longer then having the option to stay a bit longer would be a good thing.

also i dont want to use all the 180 days up in one go

- - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -


http://thailand-uk.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by brazy http://thailand-uk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png
(http://thailand-uk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=258737#post258737)3. i will transfer enough money in to her account so she can return home by her own means just in case things dont work out between us, i would think £1000 would cover this?


I'm not sure this is such a good idea. If you do not send her money on a regular basis a huge sum of money hitting her bank account a few weeks before applying for a visa, although not a massive problem, might raise a red flag as to why now.

If it is something that you really want to do then I would suggest that you make a note of this in your sponsors letter and say a small amount of funds will be transferred prior to her departure from LOS to enable her to fund her transport/food etc. from home to the airport and back again on her return.

i would explain that this is so she can make her own way home if needed, i would have thought the ECO would want to know that she could.

i dont understand why this would go against us, could you explain in more detail please?

Gary & Nok
14th Sep 2016, 14:25
i would explain that this is so she can make her own way home if needed, i would have thought the ECO would want to know that she could.
Presumably you will be buying her a return airline ticket, you won't get a visa with just a one way ticket, so she already has the means to return home.


i dont understand why this would go against us, could you explain in more detail please?
Only that in normal circumstances having a large sum of money suddenly dumped in to an account just prior to a visa application is not looked on as a favourable thing like you think it should do.

If you are sponsoring her then you are, I assume, saying that you are covering all her airfare and other expenses during her trip to the UK, therefore why would she need such a huge amount of money?

I appreciate you want to make sure she has money should things not work out between you BUT to me this is a negative that you don't really want to put in the mind of the ECO.

Everything needs to be positive on the application to help ensure success.

Of course these are only my opinions and I am sure others will differ with me, and of course you can choose to ignore them altogether. I'm just pointing out a few things that occur to me as if I were the ECO and looking at your application.

brazy
14th Sep 2016, 15:52
Everything needs to be positive on the application to help ensure success

good point! i will start making small transfers each month, i was going to do this anyway

rasg
14th Sep 2016, 16:04
Gary is 100% right in everything he says. Pumping money into a bank account when on the other hand you are saying she has a very small income is a big red flag.

to be honest i think that one month will be a good amount of time for her to get a feel of the UK and its winter! so she will be cold!! also 1 month would tie up the reason for her having to return to help with her farm, but if she wasn't home sick and her family could cope for a while longer then having the option to stay a bit longer would be a good thing.

One month does whiz by but it's a good start and winter is a good time in my opinion. If a Thai girl can hack the weather in this country in the winter the rest should be a doddle. My wife loves the change of seasons and the huge difference in humidity between the two countries.

3. i will transfer enough money in to her account so she can return home by her own means just in case things dont work out between us, i would think £1000 would cover this?

No to this one. Just give her a bit of cash for the journey etc.

4. as i am not working at the moment i will give details of my savings which i have had for more than 6 months, i will also show bank statements proving my outgoings, a copy of my house deeds and any assets i own (car, motorhome, motorbike) i will also include a credit check report showing i have no debt.

A mortgage settlement is usually enough along with a photo of the property. Assuming you don't have a house full of people. Car and motorbike mean nothing to an ECO. A credit check is not needed.

5. provide details of her visit to the uk

Very basic stuff needed.

i will ask for a specific start date say December 10th and a leave date of 5th January (just under 1 month) explain that she will be living with me at my home address during this time and that the purpose of her visit is to build on our relationship and to experience Christmas and new year in the UK.

That's fine but I would suggest you say a trip for month with start date.

reserve flights for her through flightreservationforvisa.com/ but not pay for the flights until we have the visa. once we have the visa i will book and pay for the flights on the dates we specified (with a genuine plan for her to return on these dates ;) however if plans change we will check with immigration if its ok for her to stay longer on this VV once she is in the UK.

Immigration will say it's ok! No need to check with them to stay longer. The only issue is that you will have is to explain why she stayed longer than requested in the next visa. If you state in the application that your GF is an essential cog in the running of the farm and they can do without her for a month and then she stays for three, the ECO will wonder how the farm ran without her for the extra two months...

brazy
14th Sep 2016, 17:49
Immigration will say it's ok! No need to check with them to stay longer. The only issue is that you will have is to explain why she stayed longer than requested in the next visa. If you state in the application that your GF is an essential cog in the running of the farm and they can do without her for a month and then she stays for three, the ECO will wonder how the farm ran without her for the extra two months

this is all really good advice a big thanks to all!! its so good to be able to talk with people that have gone through this before and i can see how i have to think like the EOC:mad:

ash
14th Sep 2016, 18:04
reserve flights for her through flightreservationforvisa.com

This looks dodgy why not just wait until the visa is granted to book flights

holty
14th Sep 2016, 18:22
My girlfriend had 2 failed visit visas applications rejected before she got hers
reason 1
no good reason for my gf to return back to Thailand
Reason 2
They said no employer would allow my gf to leave Thailand for 2 months, from only being in the job 8 months

So after alot of thought we decided to ask for 2 weeks
with lots of proof of our relationship together, like flights hotel bookings and money transfers to her bank account.
photos together and with her family.
I thought from the start we would get the visit visa easy, but we made some silly mistakes

And by our experience i felt asking for 2 weeks visa would be more realistic of the visa being approved.

I was only trying to help.
Think in the future i will say nothing and keep quiet

brazy
14th Sep 2016, 22:36
Think in the future i will say nothing and keep quiet

Holty i dont think you should keep quite! it seems that every situation is different so its good to here everyone's thoughts!

personally i agree with you on asking for a short stay, my thinking is it doesn't sound so desperate as to ask for the full 6 months, also if your GF's ties to Thailand are so strong how would she be able to stay away for 6 months!

Gary & Nok
15th Sep 2016, 08:38
Your biggest problem you are going to have is to convince immigration that your girlfriend will return back to Thailand
Like your girlfriend needs to show strong commitments to her family to return back to Thailand
No reason to return back to Thailand is a big failureCorrect.


I will say don't put down on your application you request 6 months.
If you put down 2 weeks, makes your application very strong
Her visa will be issued for 6 months anyway.
So you can let her stay longer
Just explain in your next application why you extended her staySound advice.


I made the mistake of asking for 6 months for my girlfriend, i was wrongly advised by someone
Just be very truthful with everything.
Most ladies in Thailand are paid cash in hand
My gf had no wage slips, i showed 6 months wage slips and bank statements
I showed proof of money transfers also to her bank accountUseful experience knowledge and again good advice.


Just read the frogsters guide on here, and you wont go wrong
Loads of good people on here will give you good adviceGood advice again.



My girlfriend had 2 failed visit visas applications rejected before she got hers
reason 1
no good reason for my gf to return back to Thailand
Reason 2
They said no employer would allow my gf to leave Thailand for 2 months, from only being in the job 8 months

So after alot of thought we decided to ask for 2 weeks
with lots of proof of our relationship together, like flights hotel bookings and money transfers to her bank account.
photos together and with her family.
I thought from the start we would get the visit visa easy, but we made some silly mistakes

And by our experience i felt asking for 2 weeks visa would be more realistic of the visa being approved.Nothing like personal experience and some good advice, so...

...why have you said this?

I was only trying to help.
Think in the future i will say nothing and keep quiet

Nothing in your info/advice (IMO) is wrong. As iv'e just shown all sound advice, and the personal experience cannot be replaced by hearsay.
Not everyone will agree with everyone else but if we don't get a variety of soundings on here and no one questions anything that anyone posts then we are in danger of getting bad/outdated/ill informed advice, and that doesn't help anyone.

Keep helping, keep answering things that you think you can help with. Do not keep quiet, that doesn't help anyone.

rasg
15th Sep 2016, 10:54
And by our experience i felt asking for 2 weeks visa would be more realistic of the visa being approved.

The problem with two weeks is it goes very, very quickly and if it is anything like the first time my wife came here, we spent the first month sight seeing, theatre, concerts etc etc. Not normal day to day living at all. Also, the first few days there is probably jetlag, probably buying some warm clothes etc. We had no problem with a month for the first visit but we used the rainy season reason and the fact that the hotel would be quiet the first time that she came here. The second time was a lot simpler as I pointed out that I was financially supporting her and she had no real reason to rush back to Thailand. You have my sponsor letters so you can see how I explained it.

ian1208
15th Sep 2016, 11:12
Wecome.

Without getting involved with do this, do that, simply follow the rules and tick the boxes.


Reason to return is the paramount issue, how to finance things second.
It makes not a bit of difference if she is a poor farm girl with no money or income to show if you can convince the Embassy about her ‘compelling’ reason to return.
Concentrate on this issue and compile a convincing reason for her to return. Make sure it is factual in the sense you can prove whatever you/she states and can be backed up.

The rest is simply ticking the boxes. I fully understand the land in the bank for a loan to cover her uni fees. The embassy will fully understand these also. These people in the embassy are no fools but they understand most things Thai from the HiSo to the simple rice farmer.

Whatever you do, do not be tempted to use an agent that wants you to bend the truth.

nigel&panada
15th Sep 2016, 19:13
Panada is a teacher so she knows about the university loans, as I understand it you have to pay for the course/ accommodation at Uni if you pass the cost is waived but if you leave without completing or fail then you have the loan to pay back, its normally secured against some form of collateral ( land ) or someone guarantees your loan. I could be off on the exact specifics of it but that's the general gist.

BigRed
15th Sep 2016, 23:14
I will say don't put down on your application you request 6 months.
If you put down 2 weeks, makes your application very strong
Her visa will be issued for 6 months anyway.
So you can let her stay longer
Just explain in your next application why you extended her stay

I made the mistake of asking for 6 months for my girlfriend, i was wrongly advised by someone
Just be very truthful with everything.


I won't even go down the cash in hand comment :eek:

Going back to the original post, if you aren't doing anything in the UK, why not spend some time in Thailand with her ?

rasg
16th Sep 2016, 00:59
No reason to mention uni fees at all and no reason why you can’t mention cash in hand. So many in Thailand are in the same boat and there is a threshold that you have to earn before it is declared. That is the way I had it explained to me.

brazy
16th Sep 2016, 17:59
Going back to the original post, if you aren't doing anything in the UK, why not spend some time in Thailand with her ?

I'll be doing both! but we would settle in the UK so i want to know if she likes it, and im not a very patient person. i know what i want so thats what i will do :)

KhunIanB-UK
16th Sep 2016, 18:22
It seems like the lack of reason to return is the real stumbling block, but I would advise not to try to try and prove a reason through what might be seen as an "exaggeration" eg:-


[ explain that she is essential to her family at this time and they need her to return to help look after her grandma and work on the farm so they can sell food to pay for the whole family to live, i will ask her parents to write a letter explaining this and that they support her financially in return for her efforts, then i will have it formally translated.

The ECO might read this and think that if she is "essential" why does she feel okay to leave them for any length of time and it could raise suspicions. Just my thoughts that it might ring alarm bells.

I think it might be better to mention about her role in the family and indicate how the role will be handled whilst she is away so that she and family have peace of mind during her holiday and she will return back to continue without disruptions. This will also pave the way for future visa applications that you intend to undertake in your relationship as it heads towards marriage. Just be straight and honest as well as trying to put yourself in the position of the decision makers that will be checking the applications.

and im not a very patient person

That does not bode well for the "visa"/remote relationship/understanding Thai culture and traditions/bureaucracy world you are now entering IMHO. You'll understand what I mean the more you go forward. I hope you manage without having to understand what I mean though :thumb:

Finally, I remember being in a similar position in the past and learnt that the Vistor's Visa was not quite the process I expected, however eventually we went the Fiancee Visa route (very expensive option now) as wanted to make sure wife was okay with the UK, shouldn't have worried so much though as she's as happy as Larry with UK living, far more so than me :cool: Been here coming on 14 years now.

P.S. Don't even think about Schengen Visa unless you want your insides ripped out and every inch of common sense you've ever had being challenged to the extreme. Only joking of course :help:

rasg
16th Sep 2016, 19:42
I think it might be better to mention about her role in the family and indicate how the role will be handled whilst she is away so that she and family have peace of mind during her holiday and she will return back to continue without disruptions. This will also pave the way for future visa applications that you intend to undertake in your relationship as it heads towards marriage. Just be straight and honest as well as trying to put yourself in the position of the decision makers that will be checking the application and im not a very patient person.

That is a much better way of putting it. :D

As far as patience is concerned if you start the long visa process for the UK and the waiting around for visas you will understand...

Finally, I remember being in a similar position in the past and learnt that the Vistor's Visa was not quite the process I expected, however eventually we went the Fiancee Visa route (very expensive option now) as wanted to make sure wife was okay with the UK, shouldn't have worried so much though as she's as happy as Larry with UK living, far more so than me :cool: Been here coming on 14 years now.

Yep. We did the same and if you are contemplating marriage which is the only real way to be together in the UK for more than 180 days in any 12 months.

That brings up a whole new set of options. Marriage in Thailand or marriage in the UK? Marrying in Thailand looks on paper to be a lot cheaper until you into the sin sot question where you end up paying a shedload of cash to her family. A dowry if you like although it's not quite the same. If you marry in Thailand expect the whole village to turn out and they will want to eat and drink.:(

The legal marriage itself is dirt cheap and you don't even have to book at the local amphur. Cost of flights etc is another factor to add into the mix. If you marry in Thailand you only have to pay for a single Settlement visa which lasts for 33 months (I think). Someone else will confirm I have no doubt. At that point your wife can work in the UK.

A fiancée visa (Settlement (M) visa. Just over £1000 plus TB certificate 3300 baht, language test, £150) in the UK lasts for six months and you have to get married in that time and then you apply for FLR (Further leave to remain which lasts for 30 months). Your fiancé can’t work during that six months. I've just paid for that one. The bill was eye watering and I could have paid an extra £500 for super speedy one day service...

Having said that my wife still can’t work until the FLR visa is granted. They have you by the short and curlies...

brazy
16th Sep 2016, 23:59
I think it might be better to mention about her role in the family and indicate how the role will be handled whilst she is away so that she and family have peace of mind during her holiday and she will return back to continue without disruptions. This will also pave the way for future visa applications that you intend to undertake in your relationship as it heads towards marriage. Just be straight and honest as well as trying to put yourself in the position of the decision makers that will be checking the applications.

yep definitely a better way of saying it! so what do toy guys think would be better, say i will through money at the problem or say other family members are willing to help out short term?


That does not bode well for the "visa"/remote relationship/understanding Thai culture and traditions/bureaucracy world you are now entering IMHO. You'll understand what I mean the more you go forward. I hope you manage without having to understand what I mean though

i am reasonably well travelled so i do know what you mean, i just wanted to point out that i want to start the process sooner rather than later, so IMHO going to stay with her rather than applying for a visa and finding out if we will get one wouldn't help the situation, however i will be going over there to submit the application with her and stay until we have a decision, if its a no i will be getting down on one knee and applying for the now £1200 fiance visa.


P.S. Don't even think about Schengen Visa unless you want your insides ripped out and every inch of common sense you've ever had being challenged to the extreme. Only joking of course

haha, i assume you are trying for this at the moment?



That brings up a whole new set of options. Marriage in Thailand or marriage in the UK? Marrying in Thailand looks on paper to be a lot cheaper until you into the sin sot question where you end up paying a shedload of cash to her family. A dowry if you like although it's not quite the same. If you marry in Thailand expect the whole village to turn out and they will want to eat and drink.:(

if we married i think it would be in Thailand, neither of us like a big fuss so i can see us doing it in secret with her close family, if that is at all possible, i cant believe how quickly news travels in Thailand! not to worried about sin sot, will probably go towards her loan anyway.


Your fiancé can’t work during that six months

thanks for the heads up, she is actually building a graphic design business online so i dont think this will be a problem, i assume she will be able to continue to do this in the uk as all the work would be online and world wide??

rasg
17th Sep 2016, 01:49
yep definitely a better way of saying it! so what do toy guys think would be better, say i will through money at the problem or say other family members are willing to help out short term?

IMHO getting help from other family members.i am reasonably well travelled so i do know what you mean, i just wanted to point out that i want to start the process sooner rather than later, so IMHO going to stay with her rather than applying for a visa and finding out if we will get one wouldn't help the situation, however i will be going over there to submit the application with her and stay until we have a decision, if its a no i will be getting down on one knee and applying for the now £1200 fiance visa.

I wouldn’t have contemplated getting married without knowing that my GF both liked England and the English weather. Most Visit Visas are granted and there is nothing to stop you applying again if you are refused.The trick is to prepare it well and to make sure that you provide all of the info that the ECO needs to grant the visa.

if we married i think it would be in Thailand, neither of us like a big fuss so i can see us doing it in secret with her close family, if that is at all possible, i cant believe how quickly news travels in Thailand! not to worried about sin sot, will probably go towards her loan anyway.

if you get married in Thailand when she comes I am pretty sure she can work. No doubt somebody will confirm that. Getting married in the UK means you need the Settlement M (Fiancée) visa. she is actually building a graphic design business online so i dont think this will be a problem, i assume she will be able to continue to do this in the uk as all the work would be online and world wide??

I have been doing work like it using the web and email for years.

brazy
10th Aug 2018, 21:02
Hi all, its visa time again :banana:I should have updated you on things so sorry about that, just got carried away with things, we did get the visa on the 2nd attempt, they wanted more info/ evidence of her finances, I just said I didn't realise they needed that as I was paying for everything and sent them a printout of her bank book along with everything else.
so the interesting bit is she stayed for 6 months! im sure many will think this is a big no no but it was amazing! we were the odd couple wherever we went but haho.

im going back in about 2 weeks and hoping to bring her back for 2 months, that will be the requested amount of time and we will stick to it! if anyone is up for talking the reasons through id be pleased to hear your thoughts, basically her cousin was covering her duties and then she split with her husband so she could do this for the 6 months, its not a strong argument but if anyone has been in this situation please share :help:

Gary & Nok
11th Aug 2018, 08:36
ECO's know plans change and as long as it is fully and believably explainable there is no reason (no guarantees) there should be a problem.

Samsung
11th Aug 2018, 10:29
My wife stayed the full 6 months due to my work commitments, was asked by border control who phoned me while I was waiting outside Manchester Airport why her return ticket was in six months, I explained the work situation with them and explained that the ticket was changeable, he did mention and knew what time she had put on her application 8 weeks, May I also say I knew our next application would be a settlement visa and knew they couldn't refuse it on these grounds, I have heard that it can cause problems for future visit visas, but a little explaining further visas should be granted has she hasn't broken any laws if returns before it expires.

jimmbo60
11th Aug 2018, 11:48
im going back in about 2 weeks and hoping to bring her back for 2 months, that will be the requested amount of time and we will stick to it! if anyone is up for talking the reasons through id be pleased to hear your thoughts, basically her cousin was covering her duties and then she split with her husband so she could do this for the 6 months, its not a strong argument but if anyone has been in this situation please share :help:


When did she return to Thailand?

Darren
11th Aug 2018, 13:05
I am in the exact same situation as you and my GF's situation is very similar to yours. Our first visa was refused on reason to return. Our second visa was granted, we had asked for 1 month and my gf stayed for 5. We are going for settlement but my gf's English is not upto scratch so we are going for another 5 month visit visa now. Her reason to return has obviously changed slightly, before it was because she was needed on the farm to help AND we wish to marry and apply for settlement. Now it is clear that her family can cope without her and so her reason to return is just the future settlement visa. She does at least have some history of proving she will return, all be it later than planned.

I think our cases will always be slightly more difficult because ideally they want to see solid reasons to return and good jobs and assets seem to carry more weight than future plans to marry. The staying longer than planned issue is also a problem but it seems fairly common and really if it is a big problem then they should make that more clear in the process.

Good luck with it all, we should be getting out application in to Bangkok around 3 weeks from now.

Darren
12th Aug 2018, 15:48
When did she return to Thailand?

He said she stayed the full 6 months

jimmbo60
12th Aug 2018, 16:12
Yes he did. However he also said "im going back in about 2 weeks and hoping to bring her back for 2 months" Unless she returned 6 months ago that won't happen as she cannot exceed 6 months stay in a twelve month period.

Darren
12th Aug 2018, 18:21
Yes he did. However he also said "im going back in about 2 weeks and hoping to bring her back for 2 months" Unless she returned 6 months ago that won't happen as she cannot exceed 6 months stay in a twelve month period.

Looks like his previous visa was way back in 2016 so he should be ok. I think they should firm up this rule because it trips a lot of people up. I had a visit visa refused in 2011 because it would have meant my then gf spending too many months in a 12 month period in the UK

jimmbo60
13th Aug 2018, 01:47
I think they should firm up this rule because it trips a lot of people up.

It is firm 180 days in 12 month period. It is to stop people abusing the settlement visa system. Seems pretty firm, simple and straight forward to me.

Darren
13th Aug 2018, 11:48
yes but it is not stated in the application process, pretty hard to find reference to it anywhere other than forums. So not particularly simple to someone who has never applied before.

Tobias
13th Aug 2018, 14:20
It is firm 180 days in 12 month period. It is to stop people abusing the settlement visa system. Seems pretty firm, simple and straight forward to me.

Not quite, see below:


yes but it is not stated in the application process, pretty hard to find reference to it anywhere other than forums. So not particularly simple to someone who has never applied before.

The reason for this is that there is no such rule. The Immigration Rules require that an applicant must demonstrate they satisfy the requirements for the visa requested. In this case, a visit visa. The applicant therefore must demonstrate they will be in the UK for the sole purposes is that of a genuine visitor and not as a quasi-resident.

In this regard the guidance issued to ECOs is that a person visiting the UK would not 'normally' be in the UK for a period of more than 6 months in any 12 month period. There is no hard rule, provided that an applicant can demonstrate that their true purpose is as a genuine 'visitor' (and not intending to use the visa to become a quasi-resident) a visa will be issued.

jimmbo60
13th Aug 2018, 16:40
Yes I read that today, I was just relaying information that I had heard previosly and believed it to be the case.

rasg
13th Aug 2018, 19:17
Not quite, see below:

The reason for this is that there is no such rule. The Immigration Rules require that an applicant must demonstrate they satisfy the requirements for the visa requested. In this case, a visit visa. The applicant therefore must demonstrate they will be in the UK for the sole purposes is that of a genuine visitor and not as a quasi-resident.

In this regard the guidance issued to ECOs is that a person visiting the UK would not 'normally' be in the UK for a period of more than 6 months in any 12 month period. There is no hard rule, provided that an applicant can demonstrate that their true purpose is as a genuine 'visitor' (and not intending to use the visa to become a quasi-resident) a visa will be issued.

I would be interested to know under what circumstances somebody would be allowed to stay longer. Most visit visas are for 6 months and are multi entry. Let's say that somebody has a two year visit visa and flies back to the UK a month later, having already spent 180 days in the UK.

What circumstances would allow them to stay longer? In theory all UK visit visa holders are genuine visitors to have a visit visa in the first place.

Vinny
15th Aug 2018, 08:10
See also

Oppong (visitor:length of stay) Ghana [2011] UKUT 431 (IAC) (11 November 2011) (http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC/2011/00431_ukut_iac_2011_eo_ghana.html)
Sawmynaden (Family visitors - considerations) Mauritius [2012] UKUT 161 (IAC) (16 April 2012) (http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/IAC/2012/00161_ukut_iac_2012_ks_mauritius.html).
IA286652014 [2015] UKAITUR IA286652014 (24 February 2015) (http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKAITUR/2015/IA286652014.html).

However, note that the visitor rules (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-v-visitor-rules) and guidance (https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/visit-visas) have been updated.

brazy
15th Aug 2018, 15:23
Looks like his previous visa was way back in 2016 so he should be ok.

yep she returned back April 2017

Darren I'm considering a short term visit visa and wondered why you decided on another VV?

All the info i have found so far suggests this could be a good option for someone who wants to improve their English (like me:() and be in the uk for up to 11 months!

here are some of the good points ive found
The English language course does not need to lead to a specific qualification.
1.The English language course does not need to lead to a specific qualification.

2.There are no minimum academic requirements for immigration purposes, the course can be at any level, but your course provider may have specific admissions criteria.

3.You are not required to have a minimum English language ability, but your course provider may have specific admissions criteria.

4.There are no minimum hours which you must be studying during your time in the UK.

this info is from the UKCISA (https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Visas-and-Immigration/Short-term-student-visa#layer-3619) website, and this is a link to the home office guidance on short term study visa (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/722982/Short-term-students-guidance-v8.0-EXT.PDF)

I'm gonna read through the guidance tonight but i do get confused by this stuff so if anyone else fancy's a go at interpreting it please do.

brazy
16th Aug 2018, 01:26
Darren I'm considering a short term visit visa and wondered why you decided on another VV?

sorry i meant short term study visa!

brazy
17th Aug 2018, 13:20
something interesting i found is that if you are granted an 11 month short term study visa you will have to pay a NHS surcharge of £150! this enables the applicant to use the NHS without being charged! so no health insurance needed.

most of the English uni courses are around 10k but ive found a local collage ESOL (English For Speakers of Other Languages) course for £550 for 34 weeks sept-june, its 1 day a week and 2.5 hours.

it all sounds to good to be true tbh but im gonna give it a go, ill let you know how i get on.

Melteddrummer
17th Aug 2018, 21:12
My fiancee has applied for three Visit Visas, the first was refused due to lack of relationship evidence and to be honest, a poorly put together application. The second application was successful and the visa was granted, we asked for three months and she stayed 3.5 months, got it no problem. Three months after she returned to Thailand we applied again and asked for 6 months and got it, so she ended up staying in the UK for 9 months, in a 12 month period. We asked for 6 months to give us time to figure out the best way(for us) of getting married, the visa was granted no problem and she went back a day before the visa ran out.

Flip
17th Aug 2018, 22:08
it all sounds to good to be true tbh but im gonna give it a go, ill let you know how i get on.

The rules may well have changed and I don't have time to look at the moment but don't get too excited just yet. It used to be that for a language course, it had to be a course (or equivalent) that isn't available in the applicant's home country. The idea being to stop people using study visa's as glorified visit visas. Check it out.

jimmbo60
18th Aug 2018, 15:27
Thought I would take a look at the guidelines and notes, 120 pages I think lol.

brazy
19th Aug 2018, 22:07
don't get too excited just yet. It used to be that for a language course, it had to be a course (or equivalent) that isn't available in the applicant's home country. The idea being to stop people using study visa's as glorified visit visas. Check it out.

i know what you're saying, the only thing i can see in the STSV guidance, (only 27 pages) is that the applicant needs to be genuine, im guessing that if the course is available in their own country at a lower cost then what would be the reason to study in the uk other than spend time living with me or working etc.
so i was thinking about saying we intend to marry sometime in the future so her ESOL course would be a benefit, also the English courses in Thailand seem to teach american!! so to improve her conversational language we believe a course in the uk would be more beneficial.

i did have a look at the t4 student guidance and couldn't find anything in there either, thats 150 pages :confused:

i have seen rejection letters saying they dont believe that the study is the main reason for the visa and tbh no its not, if she has the opportunity to improve her English and experience life with me, and thats a challenge! then whats the problem? if not I'll send my UK money to thailand! i just want to be with my GF :cry:

sorry rant over :sleep:

Flip
20th Aug 2018, 00:07
Fully understand that you want to be with your girlfriend - been there and bought several T Shirts. I did say 'it used to be' - the rules may well have changed.

In your position I'd be helping my girlfriend apply for another Visit Visa. You have to try to put yourself in the ECO's shoes. He/she is going to look at the history, see she has a British boyfriend and visited him before. Now here she is trying to obtain a visa to study in the UK.

brazy
20th Aug 2018, 02:19
Id be rubbish as an ECO, id think it would be an obvious choice for someone who cant afford to study in her own country and if her bf was offering to cover all costs for study in the uk id stamp the passport!
apparently 97% of students return once the course has ended, i wounder what the vv statistics are.

this was 2017 figures btw

The Home Office paper on “exit checks” data – a proper count of all people who are actually known to have left the UK – found 176,317 – 97.4% – of 181, 024 international students from outside the EEA left on time.

we are putting our vv application in early next month, but the next one will be a study visa, if not looks like im getting married

rasg
20th Aug 2018, 11:26
Id be rubbish as an ECO, id think it would be an obvious choice for someone who cant afford to study in her own country and if her bf was offering to cover all costs for study in the uk id stamp the passport!
apparently 97% of students return once the course has ended, i wounder what the vv statistics are.

this was 2017 figures btw

The Home Office paper on “exit checks” data – a proper count of all people who are actually known to have left the UK – found 176,317 – 97.4% – of 181, 024 international students from outside the EEA left on time.

we are putting our vv application in early next month, but the next one will be a study visa, if not looks like im getting married

That means that 4706 didn't leave the country and that's just for study visas.

I agree with Flip (again!). That is exactly what an ECO will think and I doubt that a student visa will succeed.

We got married after knowing each other for just over a year. Sooner than we really wanted to but the existing visa system makes it difficult to do anything else if you want to be together.

Flip
20th Aug 2018, 11:47
We got married after knowing each other for just over a year. Sooner than we really wanted to but the existing visa system makes it difficult to do anything else if you want to be together.

A common situation brought about by the desire to be together and the visa rules. We all look for ways to bend the rules to suit ourselves but in the end we either have to work within them or be disappointed. When you look at it with a cool head, you realise that its your choice that's brought about where you are and you just have to deal with it.

brazy
20th Aug 2018, 23:18
We got married after knowing each other for just over a year. Sooner than we really wanted to but the existing visa system makes it difficult.

Agreed, im doing the same thing just being more cautious, the end result will be she stays in the UK if it works for us. she would have no reason to stay in the uk after her study's other than be with me...


Flip
you realise that its your choice that's brought about where you are and you just have to deal with it

maybe im being a bit sensitive but not every situation is the same, in my opinion marriage is a bit old fashioned so my question is, whats the difference between any other visa and a marriage visa if we have to sign a document to say we will cover all costs for 6 months, 2 or 5 years etc.

Flip
21st Aug 2018, 00:40
maybe im being a bit sensitive but not every situation is the same, in my opinion marriage is a bit old fashioned so my question is, whats the difference between any other visa and a marriage visa if we have to sign a document to say we will cover all costs for 6 months, 2 or 5 years etc.Not sure I fully understand the question. If you want your girlfriend to stay longer than the 6 months max on a V V then she will have to return and you will have to marry her and apply for a settlement visa or a fiance visa and marry her in the UK.

Other than an unmarried partner application - for which I believe you have to have lived together abriad for more than 2 years, there is no other visa that would give your girlfriend the right to stay in the UK longer than a V V.

If I may, I would also like to comment on your reply to rasg's post:

'Agreed, im doing the same thing just being more cautious, the end result will be she stays in the UK if it works for us. she would have no reason to stay in the uk after her study's other than be with me...'

Are you under the impression that your g/f can stay when her visa ends if, I'm guessing here, you decide to get married? If you are, you are mistaken. To apply for a settlement visa of any type (including fiance visas), the applicant must return to their own country or a country in which they have official permanent residence and make the application from there.

I do of course understand that all situations are different. When I said 'you realise that its your choice that's brought about where you are and you just have to deal with it.' I wasn't just trying to put obstacles in your way. I used to get upset at all the visa rules etc. (I still do about the costs!) but..........you know your situation is genuine - the ECO does not. Over the time I've been involved with Thailand I've seen quite a few sham marriages and now I understand some of the reasons for the rules and the scrutiny that visa applications come under.

I have no figures but there are plenty of 'working girls' from Thailand over here who arrived on tourist visas and simply didn't go back. Some return eventually, others just disappear. How does an ECO decide who is genuine? They can and do, get it wrong (both ways) sometimes though.

gg

Darren
3rd Sep 2018, 02:22
It is firm 180 days in 12 month period. It is to stop people abusing the settlement visa system. Seems pretty firm, simple and straight forward to me.

and wrong

- - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -


yep she returned back April 2017

Darren I'm considering a short term visit visa and wondered why you decided on another VV?

All the info i have found so far suggests this could be a good option for someone who wants to improve their English (like me:() and be in the uk for up to 11 months!

here are some of the good points ive found
The English language course does not need to lead to a specific qualification.
1.The English language course does not need to lead to a specific qualification.

2.There are no minimum academic requirements for immigration purposes, the course can be at any level, but your course provider may have specific admissions criteria.

3.You are not required to have a minimum English language ability, but your course provider may have specific admissions criteria.

4.There are no minimum hours which you must be studying during your time in the UK.

this info is from the UKCISA (https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Visas-and-Immigration/Short-term-student-visa#layer-3619) website, and this is a link to the home office guidance on short term study visa (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/722982/Short-term-students-guidance-v8.0-EXT.PDF)

I'm gonna read through the guidance tonight but i do get confused by this stuff so if anyone else fancy's a go at interpreting it please do.

Here's the thing, immigration know they have to have what appears to be a fair system, human rights etc... but they want complete control over who comes and who does not, I believe May calls it "hostile environment "... they achieve this by suggesting that most visitors want to stay here and never go home (actually 97% return) and thats why we have the 'reason to return' , which allows them to refuse as many 'hostiles' as possible. In the end I thought I have as much chance of getting the gf a visit visa as any other (about 50/50) and I know the process, so may as well just go for another VV.... Good luck with it all.

jimmbo60
3rd Sep 2018, 03:02
Yes Dareen if you care to read my next post I admitted that. But thanks for pointing it out again. Good to see you can can pick up on the points that suit you but not the points that you don't like and need to address. You have received plenty of helpful advise here and had you taken at the start the visit visa mostly likely have been issued by now. I hope the visa is issued as we all on here don't like to see couples apart. Lets see what happens. The worst is a refusal with reasons that you can answer when you re-apply.

rasg
3rd Sep 2018, 10:12
Yes Dareen if you care to read my next post I admitted that. But thanks for pointing it out again. Good to see you can can pick up on the points that suit you but not the points that you don't like and need to address. You have received plenty of helpful advise here and had you taken at the start the visit visa mostly likely have been issued by now. I hope the visa is issued as we all on here don't like to see couples apart. Lets see what happens. The worst is a refusal with reasons that you can answer when you re-apply.

He's good at cherry picking the bits he likes and ignoring the rest and then blaming it in the system. Visa refused? It's the system. Failed language test. The system. If he spent as much time doing positive things for his girlfriend to get a visa as he does blaming it on the system and trawling the web for instances where UKVI have got it wrong and complaining about it, she would have had the visa ages ago.

The problem is Ket has no real reason to return. The visit visa she did get where she requested one month and then stayed five months is likely to be a big issue because of her lack of reason to return. She might get it because she has been here before on a visit visa. On the other hand she stayed five months. Probably one of the best things she could have done was to get a job before applying for another.

- - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

He's good at selecting the bits he likes. On the the other forum he has trawled the web to find instances where UKVI have messed up.

Refused a visa? Blame the system. GF failed her language test? It's the terrible system!

The visit visa she did have she requested one month and she stayed five. She also had no solid reason to return. No job. Zilch.

Had he spent as much time trying positive things to get his GF a visa rather than spending hours bitching about the system she might be here by now.

brazy
9th Sep 2018, 17:44
yep she returned back April 2017

Darren I'm considering a short term visit visa (correction, study visa) and wondered why you decided on another VV?

you didnt answer this, is it because of the advice given by others on this forum?

rasg
9th Sep 2018, 19:42
Basically because his girlfriend was refused for the first VV had a non existent reason to return. I rewrote his second sponsor letter requesting a month and she got the visa, but she then stayed five months.

She then went for a language test for a settlement visa but failed it. Darren is looking for a different way of applying for a visa because he is worried that she will be refused because she stayed so long before. He's had a lot of good advice from others and he's alienated most of them because he knows best. Not sure why he asked for the advice really. He was looking at student visa in the hope that she was more likely to be granted the visa.

He wants to bring her to the UK again so she can do her A1 language test here because she is more likely to pass it here.

Darren
20th Sep 2018, 16:48
The reason I went for the visit visa instead of the short term study visa is because both need to show a reason to return, Ket can still study for 30 days on a visit visa and as she has already had one granted it seemed more likely a VV would be successful. I got some garbage advice on another forum that has all shown to be untrue and approached it my own way - the visa was granted last week. I told them Ket would be studying and sitting an exam here and they had no problem with it and didn't even call her for an interview, my best advice to you is to take forum advice with a pinch of salt a lot of the 'experts' have done a single VV 10 years ago and now spend their life being visa experts on forums...

- - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -


He's good at cherry picking the bits he likes and ignoring the rest and then blaming it in the system. Visa refused? It's the system. Failed language test. The system. If he spent as much time doing positive things for his girlfriend to get a visa as he does blaming it on the system and trawling the web for instances where UKVI have got it wrong and complaining about it, she would have had the visa ages ago.

The problem is Ket has no real reason to return. The visit visa she did get where she requested one month and then stayed five months is likely to be a big issue because of her lack of reason to return. She might get it because she has been here before on a visit visa. On the other hand she stayed five months. Probably one of the best things she could have done was to get a job before applying for another.

- - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

He's good at selecting the bits he likes. On the the other forum he has trawled the web to find instances where UKVI have messed up.

Refused a visa? Blame the system. GF failed her language test? It's the terrible system!

The visit visa she did have she requested one month and she stayed five. She also had no solid reason to return. No job. Zilch.

Had he spent as much time trying positive things to get his GF a visa rather than spending hours bitching about the system she might be here by now.

mate you're becoming a bore - there are 1000's of people, mp's included who totally disagree with you, the problem is Rasg is you like Theresa May think a hostile environment is exactly what a visa system should be

Do you think this guys 4 kids think the system is fine???

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/zainadin-fazlie-deport-home-office-taliban-afghanistan-shot-dead-refugee-a8536736.html

rasg
21st Sep 2018, 15:05

Gary & Nok
22nd Sep 2018, 09:20
rasg, your posts are boring (as above), almost like you have nothing to say :whistle: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

rasg
22nd Sep 2018, 11:58
Sadly the new forum update deleted my post when I hit the button. Very annoying when that happens but it has since been fixed. I rewrote it and inadvertently breached the forum rules by quoting from one of Darren's emails to me so that was deleted. I'll try again. Maybe. If I can be bothered.

- - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

Your posts over the last few weeks have been interesting reads if whiny about the visa system and a lot of the time inaccurate.

When I first offered to help you I emailed you three sponsor letters that were used for my wife's applications. That wasn't enough and over a good few weeks I spent hours answering your questions and teasing the whole story from you and Ket. What was meant to be an editing process ended up as a rewrite of your whole sponsor letter. It was a success and you were a happy boy. It was a 50/50 chance as Ket had been refused a visa for a lack of reason to return and the only difference in the application was your sponsor letter. We exchanged more than 60 emails between 22nd July 2018 - 10th September 2019 in that time because you were so needy, lacking in confidence and generally a bit of a pain. It's doesn't matter. Ket got the visa.

Bearing in mind that one of the reasons for the first refusal was requesting six months, the new application requested one month but Ket stayed five months any way.

On the 9th August I received an email from you, once again requesting my help. Shame I can’t post it (gainst the forum rules but it would prove my point) but you basically asked for my help, again, explaining that your writing skills were not up to it.

I did tell you that the new application was 50/50 because Ket stayed so long but I spent an hour or so rewriting your sponsor letter, editing the poor English, the spelling mistakes etc.

How grateful are you?!

The straw that broke the camel's back was when Ket failed her English test in Thailand and you really flipped (sorry Flip!) and you started to explore a student visa which you then abandoned when you found that Ket needed a reason to return for that too.

After that it has been constant knocking of the visa system, asking for advice from the two forums and then insulting the members who have offered advice as it didn't fit in with what you wanted from the visa system. You have been forced to go your own way because nobody is willing to help you...

I wonder who is really the bore?

-Keith-
22nd Sep 2018, 12:09
Sounds to me like Darren owes you a MASSIVE public thank you, for the (completely over and above) help you've given him.

jimmbo60
22nd Sep 2018, 13:35
Sounds to me like Darren owes you a MASSIVE public thank you, for the (completely over and above) help you've given him.

Some how I can't see that coming.

brazy
22nd Sep 2018, 17:49
im posting this update so it may be helpful to others, i assume a lot of people read these posts for info and make there own mind up without posting, i did ask for help and im very grateful to the people that contributed, it enabled me to to progress my relationship without paying for professional fees.

we applied for a 2 month vv 15 days ago and got it:banana: i thought we would have problems as we took the ❇❇❇❇ last time and used the full 6 months, i think one of the reasons was my GF set up a shop and got a government document saying she was a shop owner, this cost 50 baht! the shop is under her house and had a stock of about 2000 baht, no signs or anything, she dose sell items and makes a small profit, but most importantly its a document that shows she has a reason to return, all sales are in cash and no book keeping was needed, she started the shop about 8 months ago, anyway this worked for us.

im hopeful that anyone who reads or posts will appreciate the effort people put in to help others who are basically in the dark on these matters, if we didn't share we would have to pay for inside knowledge. forums are the easiest if not the only way to find out about the dos and don'ts on these matters.

peace and love :cool: :lol: im gonna crack open a bottle of LOS expensive crap wine (how much!)