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Tobias
9th Jan 2004, 17:30
I received a PM a short while ago from a forum member seeking guidance over concerns he had because his wife (who he married in the UK) uses his surname for everything in the UK - banks, tax, doctors etc, but in Thailand she still uses her maiden name. The concern being that whilst the wife (quite properly) uses her married name whilst in the UK, her Thai passport and ID card etcetera remain in her maiden name.

The principal question was to enquire if this is permitted or would some kind of legal certificate need to be obtained noting that the 'missus' is using both names. There wasn't a problem per se but the member wanted to make sure there was no risk of a problem in the future - obviously the member didn't want to inadvertently open his wife up to a legal challenge - fraud or misrepresentation and suchlike.

This is obviously a question many members might have considered (or may do so in the future when the newlywed arrives in the UK!) so I thought it might be helpful to provide some information on the subject here that might assist others.

The principle is that after being married, it is up a wife to decide whether or not she wishes to change her surname to that of her husband. Although this is traditionally the case, it is not a legal requirement.

A wife can do several things - she may continue using her maiden name, she can adopt the husband's surname or she can change her name by deed to something entirely different. However, if it is decided to have a double-barrelled surname then a change of name deed will be required.

There is nothing in law to prevent a wife from using both her maiden name and her married name for different purposes (for example, she might want to use her maiden name as a professional name, and be known in private by her married name - or here in the UK she is officially known by her married name and in Thailand (for the sake of ease for example) she is known in her maiden name) - there is absolutely nothing wrong in doing so in British law.

If a wife decides to take her husband's surname, then her marriage certificate will automatically provide the necessary documentary evidence of her change of name (there is no need for a formal change of name deed). The wife's Thai passport will be evidence of her Thai name. As long as there is no ulterior or sinister reason for changing a name then one can be called by any name one wishes - so long as it is pronounceable!

Conversely on divorce, a wife can either keep her husband's name or revert back to her maiden name - the Decree Absolute being the only document required as evidence of the change of name - again there is no need for a formal change of name deed.

As for children who were born outside the marriage - then a change of name deed will be required for them to assume the husband's surname. In marriage - the parents should decide on which surname the child should be known by before registering the birth.

KhunIanB-UK
9th Jan 2004, 23:06
Tobias,

Even though it was no be who PM'd you, I just wanted to to say Thanks for looking into this and helping out in the previous post.

Cheers, Ian.

Thaddeus
10th Jan 2004, 01:20
Toby

Very useful info ..... I want to take a slightly different slant on this.... how do I stop my wife (soon to be ex-wife) from being able to use my name?

jeffygeoff
10th Jan 2004, 02:09
And another thanks to you Tobias for the great advice, sure it will help many people out. http://www.thailand-uk.com/forum/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Tobias
10th Jan 2004, 12:35
Originally posted by Thaddeus:
Toby
..... I want to take a slightly different slant on this.... You would, wouldn't you? :D


Originally posted by Thaddeus:
.... how do I stop my wife (soon to be ex-wife) from being able to use my name? Well Thad, the answer to this may surprise you - there is nothing you can do. At marriage it is the wife's choice to choose whether or not she assumes your surname and on divorce it is the wife's choice to chose to revert back to her maiden name (or not as the case may be). :shrug:

There is simply nothing you can do. I had a client a few years back who never married his long term girlfriend - she changed her name by deed to have the same surname as their children - when they spilt up he wanted to stop her using his name - answer - he couldn't!

Thaddeus
10th Jan 2004, 20:32
Ah well .... mai bpen rai ..... she could never pronounce it properly anyway :D


Flying visit ..... worked all day ... need food and beer ... I think I'll go for a Thai ;)

William 2003
10th Jan 2004, 21:31
Hi Tobias,

what happens in these cases if you marry in Thailand?

My GF and I plan to submit a visa application well before we marry so that we can confirm dates for the interview, travel etc. That will obviously be in her maiden name, accompanied by her passport in her maiden name. But we'll have to produce the marriage documents at the interview.

Any idea how this would work?
Khop khun maak
William

Tobias
11th Jan 2004, 12:50
William, that shouldn�t be a problem for the reasons stated in the opening post of this thread. At the time of the application, you will not be married and so she will have to use her own surname. Once you are married there is nothing preventing her from still using her maiden name on her travel documents � and the visa.

The wife could simply assume her Mrs 2003 title once she lands in the UK. Just make sure when booking flights etc that you use the name as it appears in the passport otherwise you might find that she will be denied boarding!!!!! http://www.thailand-uk.com/forum/graemlins/nod.gif

As to




what happens in these cases if you marry in Thailand?
It doesn�t matter where in the world you are married � the same rules apply regarding change of name (or not) on marriage in the UK.

William 2003
11th Jan 2004, 15:26
Thanks Tobias, that clears things up nicely.

William

Vinny
24th Dec 2005, 16:55
In Thailand, a wife can now also keep her maiden name, if she wants to. But I believe that she has to change her title from "Miss" to "Mrs." See Thai Women Allowed to Keep Maiden Names (http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1789).

Update February 8, 2008: Women to get choice of Mrs, Miss (http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18992), effective 04 June 2008.

The Royal Thai Embassy recommends (http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/78) the following:

If the applicant has changed or wishes to change his/her surname after the marriage or divorce, the applicant is required to bring evidence of marriage or divorce in order to apply for an amendment of his/her personal data at the District Registration Office in Thailand prior to applying for a new Electronic Passport. (If the applicant is unable to apply at the District Registration Office in Thailand to amend the personal data, it is able to make power of attorney form at the Royal Thai Embassy in London for other person to act on his/her behalf as follows

In the case of marriage or divorce that has been registered in accordance with foreign law.

To authorize other person to register the applicant’s marital status.

To authorize other person to register an amendment of the applicant’s title and surname in the House Registration Document.

In the case of marriage or divorce that has been registered in accordance with Thai law.

To authorize other person to register an amendment of the applicant’s title and surname in the House Registration Document.

Notice : The applicant is required to apply for power of attorney in person at the Royal Thai Embassy in London at the working hours between 9.30 a.m. -12.30 p.m. every Monday to Friday (Except Thai and UK Public Holidays)


Update (http://www.thaiembassy.org/london/en/services/82038-Thai-Passport.html#2)


See also Public Service Manual (http://www.dopa.go.th/English/servi/serv.htm), under Marriage Registration (http://www.dopa.go.th/English/servi/marry.htm) for more information.

Tobias
25th Dec 2005, 03:58
Originally posted by Vinny:
In Thailand, a wife can now also keep her maiden name, if she wants to. But I believe that she has to change her title from "Miss" to "Mrs." ... This is not the case in the UK however - wouldn't have a clue about Thailand though.

Roberrrt
25th Dec 2005, 14:13
I arent sure about the truth in this, but I'm under the impression that there can be problems for Thai women regarding property if they have a farang surname on their id documents. This is just something I was told in Thailand by a passing acquaintance. But he didn't seem to have any reason to say it if it wasn't true.
Its not uncommon for the wife to maintain her family name in Thailand

John
25th Dec 2005, 14:26
Roberrrt, what you say is literally an "old wives tale" ... if only because it used to be true ... thus was true for old wives .... but it is no longer true at all.

A Thai citizen whatever their name or marital status is able to own land in Thailand.

Tobias
25th Dec 2005, 15:45
Originally posted by John:
A Thai citizen whatever their name or marital status is able to own land in Thailand. And even if the person in question has dual nationality!

Gary & Su
26th Dec 2005, 04:26
Hi

We just bought a house in Thailand in November, before the house was signed over to my wife she changed her id to her married name and the house book is in her married name.


Gary, Su & Andrew

brian_723
15th Feb 2007, 07:50
i hope this is right place for this post .My ex wife to be and I are flying to thailand soon .I was wondering before i book the ticket what name should i use for her as this is important .her passport is in her maiden name .But it has aslo got a page in it from the thai embassy with her married name as changed .I am aware that your airline ticket must match your name on passaport ,so which name should i use for the ticket her original name before we got married or her married name which is printed on one of the pages of her passport .Also we plan on getting divorced while we are over there with a bit of luck .So what name will she be called on the way back to england .
Any help greatly appreciated .
Brian.

Noi & Nick
15th Feb 2007, 08:12
Originally posted by Biowan:
so which name should i use for the ticket her original name before we got married or her married name which is printed on one of the pages of her passport. This stamp changes the name in her passport, so she should use her married name for booking the ticket.
Also we plan on getting divorced while we are over there with a bit of luck .So what name will she be called on the way back to england . The name in her passport.

How long has she had her ILR? Remember that ILR would have been granted to her as she is your wife. I'm not totally sure, but I think divorcing shortly after receiving ILR may cause the Home Office to have serious doubts about the validity of her ILR application and could cause them to rescind it.

brian_723
15th Feb 2007, 10:58
we have been married over nearly four year ,she has flr as i am irsih so she is on a fammily permit so the marriage has been a long time so that should be alright .i will check what name her vis is under though good thinking .

noona
29th Jul 2009, 15:55
Dear Tobias

Im just see this post and wondering the person who's PM you is my ex- husband ...hope not Ha ha
Im having a problem with my ex_ because Im goning to the fanal hearing next months.My ex_ doesnt very happy that im still useing his surename.He is asking his solicitor to order me to remove his surename.

I have dual passport and married for 12 ys before we are break up..
What's a shame ,when you get married we have to used husband name .....no matther we like it or not ?
And now ...... he not happy for us to used his name any more?
Thank you for the post anyway..Its make me feel better to know my right even a little bit it.
noona

liverpoollad
11th Oct 2009, 11:02
My wife has just returned to the UK on a settlement visa. Can she still use her maiden name for everything in the UK?

Tobias
11th Oct 2009, 12:05
Yes liverpoollad, she can keep her maiden name if that's what she chooses to do - there is no obligation for her to take your name.

liverpoollad
11th Oct 2009, 12:08
Thanks Tobias.

Scally
11th Oct 2009, 12:47
Tobias,

I am hoping you can help, just need some clarification, I have read your earlier posts and they are very helpful on this subject, we have recently married in the UK (wife was here as a student and then we got flr as my umarried partner in april this year) we then married in August.

So from your earlier post I understand that she doesnt need to change her name by deed in the UK and she can use my surname in the uk with our marriage certificate as proof etc. I take it if we wanted to change her biometric visa/id card to my surname we can just fill in teh relevant forms on from the web site for change of details etc I tihnk it costs £30.

So my question is that if the name changes on her visa id card but we havent changed the name in her thai passport, will that cause any problems with re entry etc? as the name on id card and name on passport will be different? or will we just have to carry our marriage certificate until we can change passport in thailand?

Tobias
11th Oct 2009, 13:47
The only evidence your wife needs of her change of name is the marriage certificate.

There should be no problems on re-entry with the marriage certificate as evidence of the change of name. Before booking your flight tickets, you should also check the airline's policy on this. Again in most cases the original marriage certificate should be sufficient - but certain airlines may insist on using the name in the passport ... especially so with the regulations relating to providing advance passenger information.

Scally
11th Oct 2009, 20:18
ok thanks Tobias we will do that until we can change name in Thailand

Thanks

sumrit
14th Oct 2009, 14:39
Hi Tobias,
I hope it's OK to jump in on this thread with a question about a name change.

I've been living in Thailand with my wife and step daughter for the last few years but we've recently moved to the UK. My wife has used my surname since we got married but, while in Thailand, my step daughter continued to use her (Thai) fathers name as she didn't want to upset her grandparents. Now we're in the UK she wants to use my surname and have her surname as a middle name, so that's what we've done when registering her at a doctors, school, etc.

A girl that my older daughter fosters (long term and in the UK) chooses to use my daughters surname in the same way without any problems (and with social services blessing) or changes by deed poll so I know it's not a major problem. But I'd like to know what, if any, problems we might come across in the future?

We will look at changing her name legally in Thailand sometime when we go back for a holiday.

Thaks for your time.

Tony & Apple
17th Oct 2009, 19:56
my wife kept her maiden name after she married me and we've never had any issues, it surprises me how many of our partners change their lovely Thai surnames to our more plan sounding ones.

Merseymike
21st Oct 2009, 23:09
The one thing I would urge is that whichever name the spouse chooses to keep, don't use his/her nickname for official purposes.

I've recently had experience of a Thai woman who registered with her employer and HMRC using her Thai nickname. When it came to her application for ILR, the employer checked with the UKBA that she could still work, only to be told there is no trace of such a person, simply because the employer/HMRC have her under the nickname, whilst the UKBA have her under her official name, as shown in the passport.

leeroy221
2nd Nov 2009, 14:31
Hello All,
Is there anyway my Wife can change her surname in her Thai passport by sending it off? or is the only way this is possible is by travelling to Thailand?

Thanks,
Lee

Vinny
4th Nov 2009, 03:34
Hello All,
Is there anyway my Wife can change her surname in her Thai passport by sending it off?


Possible (http://thailand-uk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4588&postcount=10) for non-biometric passports only. New application needed for biometric E-Passport (http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/e_passport_en.html).

krumike
7th Dec 2009, 18:15
So my question is that if the name changes on her visa id card but we havent changed the name in her thai passport, will that cause any problems with re entry etc? as the name on id card and name on passport will be different?

As far as I can see from the ICFN(RC) form, the same name requirements apply as for the FLR(M). In other words, I think you won't be able to get an ID card (ICFN) with a surname which is different to the passport. I have yet go through the process {FLR(M)} and so stand to be corrected. Maybe you have some new information now as your query was in October(?).

On both the ICFN(RC) v.10/2009 and FLR(M) v.10/2009 there are 3 data entry fields to enter the applicants name.
1.4 Your full name as in your passport or travel document.
1.5 Surname or family name.
1.6 Any other name(s) by which you are or have been known.

I have assumed (maybe I read it somewhere) that the surname printed on the ICFN will be the same as the surname on the passport in both cases.

ICFN= ID Card for Foreign Nationals

Here is a link to a related thread where I ask a question about name changing after marriage.
http://www.thailand-uk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7012

Tobias
12th Mar 2010, 15:37
With the ever changing security situation, more and more airlines are changing the way they deal with passenger identification and the names on flight tickets and travel documents. Here is the most recent advice from British Airways regarding passports and travel documents being in the same name - even after marriage:

"If you have recently changed your name or plan to in the very near future it will be necessary to have your passport amended if you plan to travel abroad.

When you get married there are so many things to organise that changing your name on your passport may get overlooked.

However due to the recent increases in security measures, you may no longer travel in your maiden name and have your passport in your married name, or travel in your married name and have your passport in your maiden name.

It is not sufficient to take your marriage certificate as a form of identification when you check-in.

We at British Airways need you to have your booking, ticket and your passport, all in the same name."

TopCat
13th Mar 2010, 01:27
I booked my wife online via Expedia with Eva a couple of months ago. I made a right blunder and booked her online in her married name i.e. my name, forgetting that she has not changed her name in her passport. On spotting the blunder I phoned Expedia who referred me to Eva. Eva said no problem as long as we bring our marriage certificate along at check in. They have made a note on the booking system....hopefully all will be OK next week.

Gary & Nok
13th Mar 2010, 11:11
I booked my wife online via Expedia with Eva a couple of months ago. I made a right blunder and booked her online in her married name i.e. my name, forgetting that she has not changed her name in her passport....Did exactly the same thing, but when I phoned Netflights.com (http://clkuk.tradedoubler.com/click?p=190953&a=352341&g=18698574) to enquire what to do was told would need to buy a new ticket as old one could not be amended :eek:

Luckily Nok has now had her interview and passport received in her married name, panic over :thumb:

Orangesoup
14th Mar 2010, 13:56
My wife has her Thai Passport in her maiden name.

Her British Passport was issued in her married name.

She then requested that an entry to made in her British Passport that she is also Known As "maiden name".

Flight tickets can be purchased in either of my wife's surnames and I would advise drawing the difference of surnames to the attention of the Travel Agent/Airline before purchase.

It does however inevitably causes confusion at the Check-in desk and a consequential delay which should be dealt with by displaying patience and good-humour when pointing out the different surname on the front of a passport.

Tobias
14th Mar 2010, 14:03
... It does however inevitably causes confusion at the Check-in desk and a consequential delay which should be dealt with by displaying patience and good-humour when pointing out the different surname on the front of a passport.

... or just use her married name on tickets when using her British passport for travel . If she intends to travel on her Thai passport then use her maiden name for the booking.


... She then requested that an entry to made in her British Passport that she is also Known As "maiden name"...

I didn't realise that was possible! What forms did you use to do this? I know it is possible on the new ID Cards but not on a passport.

I do still see an issue though with airlines - especially where API is a requirement for travel notwithstanding any 'note' in the passport. More and more airlines (and governments) want to marry the name in the passenger manifest with the actual name on the travel document (passport/ID Card).

Orangesoup
14th Mar 2010, 14:28
Tobias from memory I can not recall the appropriate form however I try to source it for you.

A Passport is a Legal Document and if it reflects the fact that a person is known by 2 different names then accordingly all Authorities either Governmental of Commercial have to have procedures to accommodate.

As you said
I know it is possible on the new ID Cards but not on a passport. and if you think about it it stands to reason the British Government is not going to start bestowing new privileges just for ID cards.

Tobias
14th Mar 2010, 14:57
No issue at all with what you say Orangesoup, not a word of it. I just hadn't noticed it on any passport applications I've been involved with - but did notice it on my recent ID Card application. Passports and ID Cards are of course issued by the same Government Agency.

I am simply addressing a potential problem if an individual uses a name on a travel booking that is different from the name 'officially' stated on the travel document - such as 'Mary Married'. Whilst there may well be an 'also know as' endorsement in the passport/ID Card ('also known as Mary Maiden') the actual travel document will be in the principal name of 'Mary Married' - it is that name many airlines and government authorities now require to be stated on the booking, ticket and travel document - they should all be the same.

As API is required for travel to more and more destinations - where API is a requirement for travel, travel may be denied (without recourse) if the passenger's name on the flight manifest is different to the actual principal name on the travel document.

The solution is to always use the principal name on the travel document as the name in any travel booking. There is absolutely nothing to stop a wife using her maiden name after marriage on travel bookings provided that is the principal name on the travel document that is to be used for travel.

Unfortunately it's now not just about proving it is you who is traveling at checkin, it's about all kinds of security, criminal and anti-terror checks including the cross reference to watch-lists and no-fly-lists that are carried out even before you set foot in the airport and whilst the flight is on route.

Orangesoup
14th Mar 2010, 16:48
Hi Tobias,

I've had a quick read-thru of the paperwork that we've kept - so far its proved fruitless.

I recall I discovered that a second name could be placed on a Passport buried inside some long Guidance Notes.

I have pointed out before now to Check-in Staff that if my wife does not board the flight then the Airline is in Breach of Contract and consequently will be Liable for all Financial Costs suffered by both my wife and I and if necessary Legal Proceedings will be Issued. I always remain patient and good-humoured although I have noted that a look of panic crosses the face of those manning the Check-In.

I'll on a Visa run tomorrow and when I return I will look again for the details of writing to the Passport Office for the alternative name entry.

Yes having 2 names is not without its problems just ask Cherrie Booth QC (aka Mrs Tony Blair).

In my opinion if it is clearly shown in a Passport of an ID card that a person is known by more than by one name then there is a Duty on the Authorities to make reasonable changes to their procedures to accomodate such.

It is wise to attempt to have all travel documents in a single name however this may from time to time not prove possible.

Orangesoup
14th Mar 2010, 17:23
In my wife's instance of having 2 passports issued in 2 different names in only becomes revelant for travel that includes Thailand at some stage - all other travelling is done on her British Passport.

Flight tickets are purchased in England and therefore the Contract established is in accordance with English Law - if (say) prevented from boarding a flight in Bangkok as a consequence of differening names - any financial redress would be sought in England.

Tobias
14th Mar 2010, 18:19
... In my opinion if it is clearly shown in a Passport of an ID card that a person is known by more than by one name then there is a Duty on the Authorities to make reasonable changes to their procedures to accomodate such ...

Actually, the onus is on the traveller to provide correct and accurate information. There are now statutory and international requirements which place obligations on airlines and travellers to provide API - advance passenger information. That information must be accurate and it must be exactly as it appears in the travel document the traveller intends to use to travel. Having an endorsement in the passport or ID Card confirming a passenger is known by another name will not always be sufficient to satisfy the API obligation. Indeed many airlines now stipulate in their Conditions of Carriage that the name on the booking must be the same as in the travel document.

If an airline denies boarding because you have failed to provide API or because the name on the travel document is not the same as in the booking then there is slim chance of a court awarding compensation as it will be the traveller who has failed in his duty to provide the prerequisite information during the booking process in accordance with both international regulations and the airlines Conditions of Carriage.

In times gone by I would have agreed you with you but, alas, times they are a changing. Your argument might carry weight for domestic flights or where no API is required. Where API is required then your argument is weak legally and the risk is that the traveller who provides inaccurate information is now more likely to be denied boarding or face a 'name change' fee at the airport - and that may not always be possible for travel to certain countries where API is required.


... It is wise to attempt to have all travel documents in a single name however this may from time to time not prove possible.

I would now say in today's climate it is essential to have the travel tickets and booking in exactly the same name as the principal name shown in the travel document to be used for the journey. In fact I cannot see a situation where/why this cannot be done.

ddwjg
15th Mar 2010, 03:49
In my wife's instance of having 2 passports issued in 2 different names in only becomes revelant for travel that includes Thailand at some stage - all other travelling is done on her British Passport.

Always travel on the British passport. Simple. When passing Thai immigration(nothing to do with flight tickets) use the Thai passport. Simple.


Flight tickets are purchased in England and therefore the Contract established is in accordance with English Law - if (say) prevented from boarding a flight in Bangkok as a consequence of differening names - any financial redress would be sought in England.

As Tobias has tried to point out, many airlines stipulate in their T & C's with regards to anomolies in travel documentation. If this is the case with the airline you are using, you would have no case for financial redress.

Dave.

Orangesoup
18th Mar 2010, 16:29
Thanks for your comments Tobias and ddwjp,

I haven't had time yet to go thru my paperwork to find what form one requests for the additional name/info to be placed in a passport.

However in relation to the Legal points raised -

yes they may be in the Terms & Conditions however if a Supplier fails to bring them to the attention of a Consumer (a member of the General Public) at the point a Contact was Effected then they can not be replied on at a later date. They are in Law a Post Contractual Term and can not be enforced in a Court of Law and I would Invite a Judge to Find Such.

Tobias
18th Mar 2010, 16:48
... However in relation to the Legal points raised -

yes they may be in the Terms & Conditions however if a Supplier fails to bring them to the attention of a Consumer (a member of the General Public) at the point a Contact was Effected then they can not be replied on at a later date. They are in Law a Post Contractual Term and can not be enforced in a Court of Law and I would Invite a Judge to Find Such.

You are attempting to apply a very basic interpretation of the relevant law. You appear not to appreciate an airline has statutory and regulatory international obligations which it cannot ignore.

In law there is a fundamental and very important principle 'ignorantia juris non excusat' - that is 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'. That principle applies here. When you make a booking with an airline you make a declaration that you accept the Conditions of Carriage - whether you read them or not is irrelevant - you have agreed to abide by those terms.

Whilst you are correct in the principle that post-contract terms cannot "usually" be enforcerd (although there are exceptions to this) - we are not talking about post-contract changes here.

As this could be a very expensive error, I will reiterate, it is essential to have the travel tickets and booking in exactly the same name as the principal name shown in the travel document to be used for the journey.

Orangesoup
18th Mar 2010, 16:59
As posted by Tobias


name on the booking must be the same as in the travel document.


Travel Document as in Passport? If a second name is included in a Passport then this requirement is satisfied.


that the traveller who provides inaccurate information is now more likely to be denied boarding

This is not pertinent in any instance involving my wife. All information supplied to the Agent and Airline has been full and accurate.


That information must be accurate and it must be exactly as it appears in the travel document the traveller intends to use to travel.

There may be scope for inaccurancy as a consequence of inadequacies of the data fields used within the Computerised Airline Ticketing System


If an airline denies boarding because you have failed to provide API or because the name on the travel document is not the same as in the booking then there is slim chance of a court awarding compensation as it will be the traveller who has failed in his duty to provide the prerequisite information during the booking process in accordance with both international regulations and the airlines Conditions of Carriage.


Again the above paragraph is not pertinent in any instance involving my wife. All information supplied to the Agent and Airline has been full and accurate.

As posted by ddwjp


When passing Thai immigration(nothing to do with flight tickets) use the Thai passport. Simple

I can confirm that my wife has never experienced a problem with Immigration only some local difficulty at the Check-in desk.

I remain confident that should it ever come to pass that my wife and party were forced to make alternative travel arrangement as a consequence of Check-In staff refusing to allow my wife to board a flight that the Airline/Travel Agent or Credit Card provider (always pay the first 100GBP of the Plane Ticket by Credit Card to be covered by Section 75 of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act) would be Liable to reimburse all financial losses suffered by my wife and party.

Tobias
18th Mar 2010, 17:02
As this could be a very expensive error, I will reiterate, it is essential to have the travel tickets and booking in exactly the same name as the principal name shown in the travel document intended to be used for the journey.

That is my advice and nothing you say will cause me to change it. You are flogging a dead horse Orange :)

Orangesoup
18th Mar 2010, 17:24
Thank you for your opinion Tobias - deadhorses deserved to be flogged. Lazy Brutes.

Gary & Nok
19th Mar 2010, 09:27
Orangesoup, might I suggest you put a hold on this post until you find the time to go through your paperwork and can provide said form that allows you to add another name to a passport or actually post the passport that has two names in it, then the world and his wife will be hushed and you would have won the argument :D

Tobias
19th Mar 2010, 10:59
... put a hold on this post until you find the time to go through your paperwork and can provide said form that allows you to add another name to a passport or actually post the passport that has two names in it, then the world and his wife will be hushed ...

There is no issue Gary regarding the ability to have an endorsement in a British passport stipulating that the holder "A" is 'also known as' name "B". My comment was that I hadn't noticed this could be done on the passport application form - like you can with the ID Card.

The issue here is which name should be used when booking international travel. My advice is that it is essential to have the travel tickets and booking in exactly the same name as the principal name shown in the travel document intended to be used for the journey i.e. name "A" - especially so when API is a requirement for travel.

This could save a great deal of time, heartache and expense. Whilst a passport might have an endorsement showing the holder is also know by name "B", the passport itself is in the principal name "A" which is the name printed on the data information page that is swiped or scanned at the airport - it is that name which should be used in the booking - not the 'also known as' name "B". To use name "B" may cause all kinds of problems for the traveller.

At the end of the day the person's legal name is "A"; "B" is only a name they are also known as, but that does not stop their legal name from being "A".

I cannot see why any name other than name "A" shown on the data page of the passport needs to be used when making a booking in any event. Why create yourself a potential problem you really do not need? :shrug:

Phetchy
19th Mar 2010, 14:58
So presumably if one's spouse has changed her name on her ID to her husbands, but has not changed it on her passport, even though tickets could be bought in her maiden name (using the passport as ID), she would not be able to get a visa as the names on passport/ID do not correlate?

Gary & Nok
19th Mar 2010, 15:01
Sorry Tobias, totally missed the point (again):blush:

I for one, after the potential disaster of buying a ticket for Nok using married name even though she did not yet have her British passport, would not want to jeopardise any flight by causing any naming confusion.
Too much of a costly disaster, let alone the heartache of not being able to fly.

Tobias
19th Mar 2010, 15:18
So presumably if one's spouse has changed her name on her ID to her husbands, but has not changed it on her passport, even though tickets could be bought in her maiden name (using the passport as ID), she would not be able to get a visa as the names on passport/ID do not correlate?

Don't confuse the issue Phetchymeowdson! :eek:

I am referring to airline ticket bookings only - whatever name the travel document is in (more often than not a passport) then that is the name to use when booking travel - it does not matter if it is the maiden name if that is the name in the travel document.

When applying for a visa you should also use the same name as in the passport used for the application. As for the ID and Passport - the correlation would be made by producing the marriage certificate. That is satisfactory for visa applications and for proving a change of name. The separate issue is specifically about which name to use when booking travel - in this day of heightened security and API regulations failure to use the name in the travel document (name "A" in my example above) could lead to denied boarding, delay or an expensive name change on the booking.

Tobias
19th Mar 2010, 15:44
... the Airline/Travel Agent or Credit Card provider (always pay the first 100GBP of the Plane Ticket by Credit Card to be covered by Section 75 of the 1974 Consumer Credit Act) would be Liable to reimburse all financial losses suffered by my wife and party.

Slightly off topic but an important legal point to be made here. You can actually pay just £1 on the credit card! As long as the total transaction is for more than £100 then the provisions of Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 apply - it does not matter how much is purchased 'on credit' as long as the value of the total transaction is over £100.

For example, you buy a TV from ABC Limited for £3,000 - you pay say £1 on a credit card and the balance of £2,999 in cash or in kind - if anything went wrong with the transaction the purchaser would be protected for the full amount and could claim against the credit card company for the £3,000!!

Another important point, if you use an agent to purchase a flight ticket and a flight is delayed or cancelled or you are denied boarding you could not claim protection under Section 75. Section 75 also does not apply to PayPal or Google Money or similar type payments even if you use a credit card for the transaction.

TopCat
19th Mar 2010, 23:34
Don't confuse the issue Phetchymeowdson! :eek:

I am referring to airline ticket bookings only - whatever name the travel document is in (more often than not a passport) then that is the name to use when booking travel - it does not matter if it is the maiden name if that is the name in the travel document.

When applying for a visa you should also use the same name as in the passport used for the application. As for the ID and Passport - the correlation would be made by producing the marriage certificate. That is satisfactory for visa applications and for proving a change of name. The separate issue is specifically about which name to use when booking travel - in this day of heightened security and API regulations failure to use the name in the travel document (name "A" in my example above) could lead to denied boarding, delay or an expensive name change on the booking.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the wife flew back to BKK on Wednesday, after I booked her in via the Eva website under her married name. Her Passport was under her maiden name - my blunder. After ringing Eva they said that I should bring along the marriage certificate as 'proof' of name change.

We had no problems at the Eva check in bar from a slight delay as the a phone call was made and a bloke collected the passport and marriage certificate (Uk translation) to photocopy the documents. To save any future hassles I'd do as Tobias suggests.

As an aside I tried to open a joint Bank account at NatWest on the same day with a utility bill in our joint married name, her passport (maiden name) and her Thai ID card (married name). Computer says No as far as NatWest is concerned. Her ID card was useless because it was not 'from Europe'. Natwest's words not mine. I don't understand this utility bill thing as a form of ID? Just means I've got to ring NPower up and say can you change the name from 'married' to 'maiden' and take back to the Bank and everyone is happy as this will match the passport. :(

Orangesoup
20th Mar 2010, 10:10
Hi

This afternoon I just have gone thru a slimmed down folder that we kept for Citizenship purposes and the info I'm trying to locate isn't there.

Used a search engine and up came Wikipedia with this entry in relation to Britsih Passports (we all know how (un)reliable Wikipedia is).... I will continue to look on the Net for more useful information

The holder is or Holder is also known as ...
This endorsement is found in passports where the holder uses or retains another professional name or has an academic, feudal or legal title. The styling 'Dr ...', 'Professor ...' or similar is recorded here, or the alternative professional name. For example, Cliff Richard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Richard)'s birth name was Harry Webb. Ergo, his passport would read:

"Holder is also known as Cliff Richard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Richard)."[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

Orangesoup
20th Mar 2010, 11:05
Changing to your husband’s last name

If you are married and wish to change to your last name to your husband’s last name or want your passport to have the observation ‘the holder is also known as’ you must provide:


your original marriage certificate and
your old passport.

Link http://ukinthailand.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/passports/passport-documents

The endorsement in my wife's British Passportof ‘the holder is also known as’ was performed by the Staff at the Bangkok Embassy.

As far I can recall it was a simple process; I telephoned the Bangkok Embassy and spoke to a Thai female who then spoke to my wife, after taking advice, we posted off our marriage certificate and my wife's Thai and British Passports with a covering letter to the Bangkok Embassy. 10 days later or so the documents were returned by Post with "the holder is also known as’ last name matching my wife's Thai Passport surname. From memory I believe the only fee paid was for the postage.

I apologise if I have inadvertlenty given the impression that the above procedure was performed in the United Kingdom.

Vinny
20th Apr 2015, 02:40
HMPO (https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-passport-office) are now refusing (http://thailand-uk.com/forums/showthread.php?20001-British-passport-policy) to issue British passports (https://www.gov.uk/browse/abroad/passports), if the applicant's name does not match the name in the applicant's foreign passport.

galahad
14th Jan 2019, 23:23
Wish I hadn,t missed this Vinny...could have saved a lot of potential pain.
Can,t believe nobody else has encountered this problem in the past 3/4 years.Surely there has got to be plenty of OH,s with Uk passports using married name who have Thai passports in their maiden/family name ??

Samsung
15th Jan 2019, 21:30
ah women it can get worse when divorced has a women can then be known by what she wants but all legal documents will have to be changed .
With regards to booking a flight most websites actually flag before payment is taken or warn that the name must match what is in the travel document to be used .

- - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -


Wish I hadn,t missed this Vinny...could have saved a lot of potential pain.
Can,t believe nobody else has encountered this problem in the past 3/4 years.Surely there has got to be plenty of OH,s with Uk passports using married name who have Thai passports in their maiden/family name ??would the uk border control know if they have left the country or not .if the passports are not linked and she travelled on her thail passport .
Just imagine if she was a football hooligan and had to surrender her uk passport when england play in a nice tourist zone with sun .
She could still go and watch the match lol.

ray8472
9th Jun 2019, 15:41
Wish I hadn,t missed this Vinny...could have saved a lot of potential pain.
Can,t believe nobody else has encountered this problem in the past 3/4 years.Surely there has got to be plenty of OH,s with Uk passports using married name who have Thai passports in their maiden/family name ??

My wife has her UK passport in her married name, and her Thai passport in her maiden name. It works fine, we book tickets in the married name, and the UK passport is used at airline check-in counters at both ends. it is only at the Thai immigration desk that she shows the Thai passport. At one point her Thai passport had nearly expired and we had a trip to Thailand planned. The Thai Embassy in London actually said that she didn't need the Thai passport at all, she could just use the UK one the same as me and get 30 day VISA exempt on entry.

The only potential issue we had was the first time she travelled she showed both passports to the Thai immigration desk. They got confused. So whatever you do, don't do that unless asked.

galahad
9th Jun 2019, 22:01
When is your wife's Uk passport up for renewal Ray ?
Its a different ball game(ache) now as all dual nationals have to send in both passports to the HM passport office and they will only renew if both bear exactly the same name.

ray8472
9th Jun 2019, 22:08
When is your wife's Uk passport up for renewal Ray ?
Its a different ball game(ache) now as all dual nationals have to send in both passports to the HM passport office and they will only renew if both bear exactly the same name.

I have not heard of that before. Seems totally unreasonable. Next renewal will be from Bangkok in 2024. They saw the marriage certificate when they first issued the passport in the married name, so that makes no sense at all.

ray8472
9th Jun 2019, 23:11
Just checked this - yes they did change the law ! It is a ballache. So is an option then to ask them to issue the renewed British passport in the maiden name instead of getting the Thai one changed to the married name ? Or else - if the Thai passport has been lost, report it as lost, it would then be cancelled and you no longer have to provide anything as you no longer have an un-cancelled foreign passport. After the British passport has been renewed, then re-apply for a new Thai one.

When she first got the British passport I told her to use the maiden name as it seemed odd to me you would have different names in the two. We filled in all of the forms, and then one of her Thai friends told her the married name was better so we had to fill them all in again. If only she had taken my advice instead of that of her friend...

galahad
10th Jun 2019, 08:10
Be easier to change her thai passport Ray....and importantly she has 5 years to do it..unlike some:mad:
Thankfully all sorted now at this end but what a total chew on!
I suggest on your next trip to Thailand your wife does it all then..be a lot less complicated.

ray8472
10th Jun 2019, 09:22
We will be retired in Thailand well before that. I doubt she will want to change everything in Thailand. I presume it is not just the passport - would also be Thai ID card, house card etc etc.

She was naturalised under her maiden name, surely on request the UK passport office would issue a replacement in that name ? But maybe she won't even bother to renew at all. We probably won't ever come back to the UK. But having citizenship of course the option is always there.

ray8472
10th Jun 2019, 10:27
I got curious so spoke to the UK passport office. They can renew it in her maiden name instead, but they say it needs a change of name deed or a statutory declaration, along with the marriage certificate and a document with her maiden name on it to prove she has "switched back", e.g. council tax bill. That would be no issue if we were still in the UK at the time, she has always continued to use the maiden name on everything. Just the passport has the married name. That is perhaps the annoying bit. So unnecessary.

But it will be more complex renewing in Thailand. If she ever does renew it.

galahad
10th Jun 2019, 14:16
Can,t see how it would be more complex to do whilst in Thailand Ray.
My Mrs managed to get everything done in the Uk but it was very time consuming...and expensive.2 visits to the Thai Embassy in London and a roadshow in Edinburgh..POA to a relative in Thailand allowing name change for House registration /ID card and various other things such as legalised and notorised documents.
Much easier(and cheaper) to do in Thailand IMHO.
Seems a shame to lose the option of returning to the UK (after all the twists and turns in gaining citizenship) but if she has no intention of returning then "ler de koon "

ray8472
10th Jun 2019, 15:07
She will never lose the opportunity to return to the UK. She will still have her citizenship. Just a matter of getting the UK passport renewed.

I'm pretty sure she will never change her Thai identity and I wouldn't either if it was me. So what is slightly more difficult from Thailand will be the name change for the UK passport so that her UK passport can be re-issued in her maiden name to match the Thai one. Changing by deedpoll can be done online. So in Bangkok she will have to present the deedpoll documents, the marriage certificate and somehow prove that she has switched permanently to using the "new" name and the evidence for that is official documents such as council tax etc of which she will have none of. We will come up with something.

It is all very stupid, a wife should be able to go back to her maiden name - birth name - without any of this nonsense.

She is in Thailand at the moment. I think what we will do before we move over permanently is get the new passport with the name change early. Change by deedpoll etc while in the UK, and while we have UK "evidence" in the maiden name. Then at least it will be 10 years before she needs to do it again from Bangkok, and there will be no complications.

Nealy
16th Jun 2019, 14:37
I maybe be wrong.. however my wife followed the same procedure but l now believe both passports, Thai and British should be shown and scanned when departing the UK. I always found it strange that when leaving Thailand they always requested both passports even when the ticket was booked under my wife's married name, it was only recently explained, if your wife leaves the UK under her married name and passes through passport control under her maiden name then she is "lost within the system" in otherwards they have a record of her leaving the UK under her married name but not arriving in Thailand because she has used her maiden name. Over the years I have travelled to Thailand using different airports and airlines without a problem, it was only recently, this was pointed out to me.

ray8472
16th Jun 2019, 14:59
I always found it strange that when leaving Thailand they always requested both passports even when the ticket was booked under my wife's married name,

I don't recall my wife ever being asked for both passports on departure from Thailand.

Nealy
16th Jun 2019, 15:54
Hi ray8472 and thanks for the reply..

In my wife case both British and Thai passports have always been requested when checking in at BKK. The reason both passports are scanned was only explained to me last time she flew from Glasgow..

Regards

ray8472
16th Jun 2019, 18:02
It may depend on the airline perhaps then.