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Lord Lucan
28th Jul 2008, 14:36
I don't know whether anyone can clarify some things for me.

A few years ago I married a Thai lady in Thailand afterwhich she obtained at that time a Settlement Visa before coming to UK to live. After 4 years the marriage did not work out (I won't go into details!) so we went back to Thailand to get divorced at the Umphur (she still lives in UK and now has a UK Passport). Because the Thai marriage was recognised internationally then I never got it registered here in the UK. Now I am in position of (i) a Thai divorce certificate which includes in Thai details of the agreed financial settlement and also (ii) a UK decree absolute from an earlier marriage to a UK citizen.

Are you still with me? well the first two marriages have not put me off, perhaps I'm mad!!! Recently I have fallen for another Thai lady in Thailand. I want to this time make it third time lucky and marry her, get a settlement visa and go through the whole routine again but this time without the divorce bit at the end!

So here are the questions....

1: Affirmation to Marry
Do you see any problems with me going to the UK Embassy and getting the 'Affirmation to Marry' document? remember I have the Decree absolute from UK for 1st marriage and a Thai divorce certificate (of which there is nothing registered in UK) which I plan to get translated for 2nd marriage.

2: Registering Marriage at Umphur
If the above works out then I plan to marry and register at the Umphur, should I have any problems presenting the affirmation for marriage and the Thai divorce certificate?

3: Agencies and VFS
Last time I went through this process at the UK Embassy in Bangkok I done it myself. I put together a portfolio of information, filled in the application form, paid the fee then my ex-wife was summoned to attend an interview about 10 weeks later which she passed although only after some very rude and disgusting questioning from the UK guy attending.

My questions this time are:-

a) Do I fill in a Marriage Settlement Visa (VAF4)? has this now replaced the old FLR?

b) Are the UK Immigration authorities likely to refuse this application on the basis that I had married a Thai citizen before? My recollections before was that this was a little hit and miss and success rate was about 60% on the day!

c) Would going through a Thai Visa agency improve my chances of being successful, speed the processing time (would we be talking of 10-12 weeks or sooner?) and prevent the need for an interview or would that still be normal practice? I know these people have alot of contacts within the UK Embassy. Also how much typically would it cost in Thai Baht to go down this route and would they also include all the necessary authourised translations?

d) What is a VFS or is the same as a Thai Visa agency mentioned above? do they work in the UK Embassy or is this a separate agency which require a fee?

e) In order to expedite the Visa process would performing the Thai Bhuddist religious ceromony after already going to the Umphur and the UK Embassy affect the application in anyway?

BTW: Divorce is a horrible process to have to undertake but when you get to that point then there is no easy solution. Providing I have no reprocussions going forward with my next marriage then I would say this, divorce in Thailand seems a whole lot easier way than in the UK, its far quicker and more sensible! In my case we both agreed to what was going to happen without any 3rd parties involved and my ex-wife still got a very favourable financial settlement which the Umphur recorded in Thai on a certificate.

I know alot of questions but I look forward to hearing your replies, your excellent service has given me much needed help before.

Many thanks

L. Lucan

Lord Lucan
28th Jul 2008, 14:36
I don't know whether anyone can clarify some things for me.

A few years ago I married a Thai lady in Thailand afterwhich she obtained at that time a Settlement Visa before coming to UK to live. After 4 years the marriage did not work out (I won't go into details!) so we went back to Thailand to get divorced at the Umphur (she still lives in UK and now has a UK Passport). Because the Thai marriage was recognised internationally then I never got it registered here in the UK. Now I am in position of (i) a Thai divorce certificate which includes in Thai details of the agreed financial settlement and also (ii) a UK decree absolute from an earlier marriage to a UK citizen.

Are you still with me? well the first two marriages have not put me off, perhaps I'm mad!!! Recently I have fallen for another Thai lady in Thailand. I want to this time make it third time lucky and marry her, get a settlement visa and go through the whole routine again but this time without the divorce bit at the end!

So here are the questions....

1: Affirmation to Marry
Do you see any problems with me going to the UK Embassy and getting the 'Affirmation to Marry' document? remember I have the Decree absolute from UK for 1st marriage and a Thai divorce certificate (of which there is nothing registered in UK) which I plan to get translated for 2nd marriage.

2: Registering Marriage at Umphur
If the above works out then I plan to marry and register at the Umphur, should I have any problems presenting the affirmation for marriage and the Thai divorce certificate?

3: Agencies and VFS
Last time I went through this process at the UK Embassy in Bangkok I done it myself. I put together a portfolio of information, filled in the application form, paid the fee then my ex-wife was summoned to attend an interview about 10 weeks later which she passed although only after some very rude and disgusting questioning from the UK guy attending.

My questions this time are:-

a) Do I fill in a Marriage Settlement Visa (VAF4)? has this now replaced the old FLR?

b) Are the UK Immigration authorities likely to refuse this application on the basis that I had married a Thai citizen before? My recollections before was that this was a little hit and miss and success rate was about 60% on the day!

c) Would going through a Thai Visa agency improve my chances of being successful, speed the processing time (would we be talking of 10-12 weeks or sooner?) and prevent the need for an interview or would that still be normal practice? I know these people have alot of contacts within the UK Embassy. Also how much typically would it cost in Thai Baht to go down this route and would they also include all the necessary authourised translations?

d) What is a VFS or is the same as a Thai Visa agency mentioned above? do they work in the UK Embassy or is this a separate agency which require a fee?

e) In order to expedite the Visa process would performing the Thai Bhuddist religious ceromony after already going to the Umphur and the UK Embassy affect the application in anyway?

BTW: Divorce is a horrible process to have to undertake but when you get to that point then there is no easy solution. Providing I have no reprocussions going forward with my next marriage then I would say this, divorce in Thailand seems a whole lot easier way than in the UK, its far quicker and more sensible! In my case we both agreed to what was going to happen without any 3rd parties involved and my ex-wife still got a very favourable financial settlement which the Umphur recorded in Thai on a certificate.

I know alot of questions but I look forward to hearing your replies, your excellent service has given me much needed help before.

Many thanks

L. Lucan

rolyshark
28th Jul 2008, 15:26
1-No.
2-No.
3a-Yes,no.
3b-No.
3c-No. No idea of the cost,but it will be more than doing it yourself.
3d-VFS is merely the handling agent of the Embassy,franchised out-service if you like. The premises are elsewhere than Embassy property.
4e-No effect on the visa process.

Vinny
28th Jul 2008, 15:43
See also Annex B - Recognition of marriage and divorce (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/IDIs/idischapter8annexes/section1/annexb.pdf) and Divorce (http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/nationalityinstructions/nisec2gensec/divorce).

3 a) What will I need to make my application? (http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/infs/inf4husbandswivespartners#Q13)

b) Probably not: 13.20 - Polygamous and potentially polygamous marriages (http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/chapter13/#point%20twenty)
Termination of previous marriage

Even where it is suspected that a divorce of convenience has taken place and that a man, for example, is continuing to live with a previous wife, entry clearance cannot be withheld from a second wife, even if a polygamous household will be created as a result.

c) Visas (http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1065714374894)
Use of visa agents
There are a number of visa agents in operation throughout Thailand, prospective applicants may choose to use them in order to support or prepare their entry clearance application. It is important to note that these agents are in no way whatsoever connected to the Embassy. They have no influence over the outcome of an application. Our outsource partner, VFS Global, operates from the UK Visa Application Centre. Their staff are clearly identifiable by their uniform.

Any decision to utilise the service of an agent is entirely at the applicants discretion.

If you do need help, suggest you use Davies Khan Immigration Associates (http://www.davieskhan.co.uk/).

d) VFS (http://www.vfsglobal.com/) runs the Visa Application Centre (VAC) (http://www.vfs-uk-th.com/) on behalf of UKBA (http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/aboutus/).

e) See also 13.5 - Spouses/civil partners and how they qualify (http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/chapter13/#point%20five). A Thai Buddhist religious ceremony is not relevant to the Validity of marriages (http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/chapter13/#point%20ten).

Lord Lucan
29th Jul 2008, 14:11
Thanks guys for your input, this gives me some confidence that I'm following the right approach. I agree this should be straight forward but experience tells me that it is not always the case.

If I either the affirmation or the visa application is turned down by the Embassy then I assume I will be in good position to appeal.

Another question you may be able to advise me, is say a 6 month visitor visa easy to get? and would this make a marriage visa easier or more difficult to apply for later?

Regarding the visa agencies I know you have stated the official story but from what I have seen I would say this is not always the case, 4-5 years ago visaa seemed to be issued quicker and without as much hoohaa but I suspect things have been tightened up now. Immigration in the UK is a hot topic!

regards

L Lucan.