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Slacko
10th May 2007, 14:41
I am in the process of helping my girlfriend Kim obtain a vv.
She had her first visa application refused aprox 6months ago.
The reasons stated were the usual(from what I gather reading through the threads) "Incentive to return" and "insufficient evidence has been provided to show that you are in a subsisting relationship"

After reading through the various threads I realise now that I was extremely naïve to expect the first application to be successful with the information I supplied but was badly advised by the agency dealing with the application who assured me it was no problem.

I have addressed the lack of photos after my last visit,unfortunately previously I only had photos of Kim herself only one showing us both together.

The problem I have is all my class made to Kim were on a Pay as you go mobile, after speaking with the provider today to obtain itemised bills I have been advised that although they are aware that I call Thailand on a regular basis they cannot give me an itemised bill, the best they can do is send me a headed letter stating the above. Will this be enough?
Since my return from this trip I have been using my BT line with access numbers however this will only be proof from the last trip to the current time (aprox 1 month) and even then it will be an access number rather than Kim's own number.

Will the letter from my mobile provider and 1 months BT bills be enough?

Thx for any help and advice and also thx for a great forum full of advice and Knowledge.

Chris&Kim.

Slacko
10th May 2007, 14:41
I am in the process of helping my girlfriend Kim obtain a vv.
She had her first visa application refused aprox 6months ago.
The reasons stated were the usual(from what I gather reading through the threads) "Incentive to return" and "insufficient evidence has been provided to show that you are in a subsisting relationship"

After reading through the various threads I realise now that I was extremely naïve to expect the first application to be successful with the information I supplied but was badly advised by the agency dealing with the application who assured me it was no problem.

I have addressed the lack of photos after my last visit,unfortunately previously I only had photos of Kim herself only one showing us both together.

The problem I have is all my class made to Kim were on a Pay as you go mobile, after speaking with the provider today to obtain itemised bills I have been advised that although they are aware that I call Thailand on a regular basis they cannot give me an itemised bill, the best they can do is send me a headed letter stating the above. Will this be enough?
Since my return from this trip I have been using my BT line with access numbers however this will only be proof from the last trip to the current time (aprox 1 month) and even then it will be an access number rather than Kim's own number.

Will the letter from my mobile provider and 1 months BT bills be enough?

Thx for any help and advice and also thx for a great forum full of advice and Knowledge.

Chris&Kim.

Gary & Nok
10th May 2007, 23:07
Originally posted by Slacko:
... and even then it will be an access number rather than Kim's own number.
Chris&Kim.

Hi Chris, welcome to the forum.

Like myself you took a little while before making your first post and like me took the step of using an agency :rolleyes: before becoming aware of this great site and all the help. If only there was some way of knowing about this before hand, oh well, a bit lighter in the pocket but here now.

From the things you ask I can not answer too much I am afraid but lots of knowledgeable people will help you out. The only thing I can say is that I used evidence of calling my girlfriend (now wife) and used an access number which did not appear to be a problem at all.

As to the rest of your questions, just hang on and the info will come flooding in.

All the best with the next application.
Gary

Lucky
11th May 2007, 01:14
I only had proof of calls to an access number and obtained the visa so hopefully you will be OK.
The fact that you have been back and have maintained your relationship for a further six months will be a big plus.
Make sure you address every point in the refusal and ensure your gf is fully conversant with what you write in your sponsorship letter. Run her through a couple of scenarios such as what would she say if they asked her why she wants to visit the UK and why she would return to Thailand before the visa expires.
Good luck, you will get there.

Kev62
11th May 2007, 02:37
Had the same problem with PAYG mobile evidence , first person i spoke to at provider said they did not do bills as i was a PAYG , but i refused to accept this and asked to speak to a supervisior and was told i could have printouts for a tenner.

They did ask me a couple of questions to prove i was the original owner of the sim .

Kev

Slacko
11th May 2007, 13:57
Thx for the replies,

tried my provider again and they said there really wasn't any way they had the system set up to do this, I don't know if this is true or not but the chap I spoke to was extreamly sympathetic and couldn't have been more helpful so I have no reason to doubt him even when I said I was more than happy to pay whatever it cost he said it simply couldn't be done.

Lucky, funny you should mention that but I was running through questions with Kim last night. She did get me worried on a couple of answers until she burst out laughing. Trouble was I'm so worried about this aplication that I couldn't sleep so was calling her at 3 in the morning,probably not the best time to be sorting things like that. :)

Just a quick question on forum etiquette. I am sure that as I prepare all the paper work etc more questions will pop up,
is it best to just tag them on the end of this thread?

Also to add, appollogies for lurking so long without posting and now expecting regular posters to help me out but I didn't have anything constructive to add before.

Thx again.

Doggsy
11th May 2007, 23:23
i can't really answer your questions but just want to say that I think tere are many people that lurk on this site, use it for information and then when they have specific questions pop their heads up. I registered nearly a year ago but didn't post until April once I had my spouse visa.

However once you get your visa keep checking back in as there is a whole wealth of information that is useful not only if you have to apply in the future but also on meeting with other Thais, temple festivals, buying thai goods and other bits. For this site getting the visa is only just the beginning....

Noi & Nick
12th May 2007, 03:23
Originally posted by Slacko:
Will the letter from my mobile provider and 1 months BT bills be enough? How long is a piece of string?

Although, I suspect that coupled with a brief explanation in your sponsor's letter that they will be.

From what you said in your OP it seems to me that the biggest problem with her previous application was that you had simply not known each other long enough, or had failed to show that you had. Many VV applications are successful even though the applicant has no apparent reason to return simply because the ECO is satisfied that the relationship between sponsor and applicant is genuine and therefore the reason for the visit is genuine. This is especially so if sponsor and applicant are in a romantic relationship as the ECO will feel that they would not wish to jeopardise a future settlement application by overstaying or otherwise breaking the VV conditions.

I am a little concerned about your use of an agency previously. This may not be so in your case, but some agencies 'advise' their clients to tell lies which the agency think may make the application seem 'better.' These lies don't, of course, as the ECO can see through them straight away. If you were the victim of such an agency and took the 'advice' then make sure you explain in your sponsor's letter why you did so and why there are differences between what was said then and what is being said now, if any.

When preparing the application make it neat and easy to read. Make a brief outline of your case in your sponsor's letter and provide a list of the evidence you are supplying. Keep your sponsor's letter to the point, if possible no more than one side of A4.

According to an ex ECO/IO acquaintance of mine, ECOs have, on average, less than 10 minutes to examine an application and decide whether to accept, call for interview or decline. Put yourself in the ECOs position, and help them to help you by making the application easy to digest.

If she is called for interview, then personally, I am against learning and rehearsing scripted answers to possible questions. I feel that doing so makes the answers seem false. Better, IMHO, for the applicant to answer spontaneously and honestly; even if the honest answer is "I don't know." (Worked for Noi)

Hopefully, like the vast majority of applicants, an interview will be unnecessary, and her visa will be issued on the written evidence. Best of luck.

If you have any further questions about this application then it's better, I think, to ask them in this thread rather than start a new one each time.

Originally posted by Doggsy:
I think tere are many people that lurk on this site, use it for information and then when they have specific questions pop their heads up Indeed, isn't that what this site, or at least the Visa section, all about?

Mark W
12th May 2007, 03:36
Nick,
Your sometimes a stubbon old mule but you certainly take time to give thorough and helpful answers. :thumb:

Bryn&Mot
12th May 2007, 03:41
Along with just a few others, Nicks advice is as always spot on, and anyone with any sense would be advised to follow his advice.

GTG
12th May 2007, 06:33
Chris

Although the evidence of contact seems to be shaping up nicely, have you decided how to tackle the 'incentive to return' clause as this seems to be an even greater obstacle to the success of VV applications. Although, as Nick said, that's not always the case, have you anything more to support your case than you had for the original application?

Doggsy
12th May 2007, 06:41
Nick - indeed that is what this site is inteded for but i was trying to make the op aware that there is a whole wealth of other information to use. I know that i really only focused on the visa section but once i got the SV looked at the rest of the site and wished i had whilst Mink was here on VV.

Lucky
12th May 2007, 06:47
Originally posted by Noi & Nick:
I am against learning and rehearsing scripted answers to possible questions.

I was not intending to suggest scripted answers, mereley that she does not contradict anything stated in the sponsors letter.

Slacko
12th May 2007, 10:12
Nick many thx for your reply I have taken it all onboard.

The agency application bothers me as well because I have no idea exactly what was written :blush: however Kim has spoken to them and any papers they have are being forwarded on,so time will tell.

I'm sure the evidence of another meeting with Kim and contact between the last application and this one must work in my favour, to be fair to the ECO there was very little evidence of previous contact.


Although the evidence of contact seems to be shaping up nicely, have you decided how to tackle the 'incentive to return' clause as this seems to be an even greater obstacle to the success of VV applications. Although, as Nick said, that's not always the case, have you anything more to support your case than you had for the original application?

Gordie T Geordie, Kim has no children, her work for the last 6 months was helping her mother in Korat making food so hardly qualifies as a good reason she has no property and precious little money in the bank. Presents quite a bleak picture I'm sure.

However both she and I realise that any miss use (grasping for the correct word) of a V/V would jepordise any further attempts at visa applications and as we intend to eventually marry she has no option but to return.

She has in the past been to Europe on two previous occassions aprox 3 years ago for 2 months each time and returning.I must admit I'm unsure about stressing this point or not but IMO this proves that she understands the importance of returning.

I'm aware that I proberbly haven't put this in the best possible way but will be seeking help from my sister to finalise my sponsors letter who is much better at wording things than me :blush:

I have been looking through the rest of the forums and am amazed at the wealth of info and help it contains.I'm trying to stay focused on the visa for now.

Thx for all your replies.
Chris.

Lucky
12th May 2007, 11:09
Chris
Don't dwell too much on the 'no reason to return'. It is almost impossible for the average Thai girl to provide substantitive evidence. Proof of contact is your only real solution and if it is your intention that the relationship progresses then the argument that she would not wish to jeopardise future visas comes into play.
:thumb:

GTG
12th May 2007, 11:49
I'd have thought evidence of actually having returned from Europe twice could only strengthen your case, but then again I've never actually gone through this process.

Noi & Nick
13th May 2007, 07:04
Originally posted by Slacko:
She has in the past been to Europe on two previous occassions aprox 3 years ago for 2 months each time and returning.I must admit I'm unsure about stressing this point or not but IMO this proves that she understands the importance of returning. The fact that she has twice before visited Europe and returned only strengthens her, for want of a better expression, trustworthiness. However, I wonder why this didn't help her last time.

Maybe the agency told her not to mention it because she had a different sponsor? Very stupid if so. Even if she has a new passport her details are on someone's computer somewhere; very easy to check. If she didn't mention these visits and the ECO found out about them then the ECO could easily conclude she is trying to hide something. Not good.

Therefore I would definitely mention these visits, the reasons for them and if you were not her sponsor say who was and the nature of her relationship with them.

The ECOs are aware that people have probably had previous relationships. They are even willing to ignore past misdemeanours. Lying or trying to hide something, on the other hand, they can/will not overlook.

Slacko
24th May 2007, 01:16
Everything is all prepared and ready to send of.
Before I post it there is just one more question (for now !) that has poped up.

The dates of Kim's trip. Speaking to her on the phone she says she will put the days date to leave i.e. ASAP which is are plan. Basically get the visa then the air tickets.Is this wise ? Also I have seen mentioned that some people have 3month visas etc . I was under the impression that VV were granted for 6 months.

Our plans were for Kim to arrive in June then for us both to return together in Oct during my work holiday. Totaling a 5 month stay. Is this too long a request for a first time VV to the UK?

There is one last point thinking about it.
In the section about available funds for the trip I simply wrote " sponsors Support" I have included bank statements etc so Is a figure actually necassary?

Thnks again.
Chris and Kim.

Lucky
24th May 2007, 01:52
VV's are for six months, but sometimes they ask her to sign an undertaking to return in a shorter period than that. But generally six months is the norm.
You do not need to provide an exact figure, merely that you have sufficient funds to support her!
Good luck :thumb:

Ian in Issan
24th May 2007, 02:56
Don't know if it's really needed but I made a couple of points on my Sponser letter for what Mot planned to do why she was here on her VV and what she could do while I was at work. I feel it gives the application a bit more credibility as 5/6 months is long time without anything to keep her occupied.

btw Chris live anywhere near Cambridge?

Best of luck :)

Slacko
24th May 2007, 14:06
Cheers for clearing thoose points up Lucky.
It's all sealed and ready for posting now so I can do no more. Haven't spent that long on paperwork in years.




Originally posted by Ian in Issan:


btw Chris live anywhere near Cambridge?

Best of luck :)


About 45 Min drive North of Cambridge