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sundayfunday1971
8th Dec 2008, 09:08
i married in 2004, same day my wife got drunk and tried to attack me wife a bottle in our hotel room, i never saw her again and returned to the uk, in june 2008 i met my girlfriend Bam and am enjoying our relationship tremendously. I want a divorce and my girlfriend also wants me to be free of my wife. My wife is demanding money from me in order that she then signs the divorce papers in Bangkok... after marrying her we didnt spend time together, she now has a child with another man from USA when she worked in Bahrain, I just want a divorce but dont feel that i should pay her...Can anyone give me advice...In the future i would like to plan my life with my new girlfriend, she is the only one i want... should i really expect to pay a settlement when we were not even together? Can anyone point out a good lawyer to help me when i return to thailand in December 2008??? thanks in advance everyone, from james in the UK.

richardb
8th Dec 2008, 10:24
Dear James,

a truly jawdropping first post . :eek: Though for the record I was once KO'd by 40kg of sangsip powered GF.

How much is she asking?

Richard

Noi & Nick
8th Dec 2008, 11:05
Tell her to go to hell.

I'm no lawyer, but AFAIK as it's been 4 years since she deserted you, obtaining a divorce without her help should be simple.

Tobias
8th Dec 2008, 12:08
There is nothing stopping you divorcing through the English courts. In your shoes, I would contact your wife and advise her that you intend to divorce her through the English courts and, because you will be divorcing on the grounds of adultery and desertion you are entitled to claim all the legal and court costs against her. Let her know that these can amount to as much as £1500 as she is in Thailand and that the court can and will order her to pay the costs.

Then you can give her the alternative, that is if she meets you in Thailand to divorce at the Amphur you will not seek any costs against her. If she refused, tell her you will immediately issue proceedings through the English court seeking all the costs from her.

If she doesn't consent and attend the Amphur then you will have to issue proceedings through the courts either here or in Thailand. I think it would be less of a minefield if you issue in the UK, it will probably be much cheaper in the long run than issue in Thailand and pay a Thai lawyer to act.

Under both English and Thai law she is not entitled to any payment.

Good luck.

Paul.A
8th Dec 2008, 12:28
It will be much cheaper in Thailand the only problem is she is likely to demand cash to sign any documents.

axel1974
8th Dec 2008, 17:49
James...... it certainly sounds as though you had a lucky escape there

Aren't you glad you found out what she was like before she made it to the UK?

I guess you will just have to put that one down to experience. Good luck with the divorce

Axel

sweetsapple
8th Dec 2008, 22:20
Hope you lucky with your new girlfriend :shake:
Story allways has two sids :D

Noi & Nick
9th Dec 2008, 00:48
Originally posted by Azzzey68:
It will be much cheaper in Thailand the only problem is she is likely to demand cash to sign any documents. If she does then the OP simply does as Tobias suggests
advise her that you intend to divorce her through the English courts and, because you will be divorcing on the grounds of adultery and desertion you are entitled to claim all the legal and court costs against her. Let her know that these can amount to as much as £1500 as she is in Thailand and that the court can and will order her to pay the costs.

AndyThomas
9th Dec 2008, 01:42
Hi,

For a first post likewise and certainly dont wish to cause friction but if you married in Thailand, you must divorce in Thailand !

That was made quite clear to me 3 years ago by 2 English solicitors, and subsequently the Thai Lawyer who charged 5,600 baht for everything and all I did was sign in the appropriate places.

ash
9th Dec 2008, 02:12
Hi,

For a first post likewise and certainly dont wish to cause friction but if you married in Thailand, you must divorce in Thailand !


Not true

rolyshark
9th Dec 2008, 02:56
Originally posted by AndyThomas:
Hi,

For a first post likewise and certainly dont wish to cause friction but if you married in Thailand, you must divorce in Thailand !

That was made quite clear to me 3 years ago by 2 English solicitors, and subsequently the Thai Lawyer who charged 5,600 baht for everything and all I did was sign in the appropriate places.

Sadly Andy,you were incorrectly advised.
To add insult to injury,there is no fee for a divorce by consent at the Amphur,save 20 odd baht tea money.

AndyThomas
9th Dec 2008, 03:39
Not complaining about fee charged at all.

Am well aware of the 50 baht charge by the registrar to file the divorce.
The 5,600 was for chasing her up etc.No complaints whatsoever re bill-very reasonable I thought.

Notwithstanding any of that I have a letter at home in Gloucester from original solicitor apologising for wasting my time and waiving the 740 pound (plus vat) fee that he had incurred to date whilst doing his initial work on my case !!

He also produced the legislation (or whatever it is called)from the appropriate law (if thats the right word) clearly stating that if you tie the knot in Thailand you MUST divorce in Thailand.Period.

Am in Khorat on holiday at the moment but on return if your forum has the facility I will scan it in for you to see yourselves.

I did subsequently find it myself on the web and will endeavour to find the url and post here later tonight if I can.

If you didnt think 5,600 baht was fair than am sure the opening poster will be bemused at the 1500 pounds being quoted !

Edited to Add-
Just enter Marry in Thailand Divorce in Thailand into Google

-Keith-
9th Dec 2008, 04:01
Edited to Add-
Just enter Marry in Thailand Divorce in Thailand into Google

Just did. Funnily, not one website that is displayed makes the statement thent you have made, you know why. IT'S NOT TRUE :nod:

AndyThomas
9th Dec 2008, 04:24
Ok no problem -let me know if I can indeed scan documents for you, if not give me your email anyone who wants the information as that may be easier.

Am afraid the information is very true, but for the opening poster it actually makes it very easy for him to divorce in Thailand with or without her consent due to the time lapse so in this case no long drawn out battle, and cheap as well.

Edited-

Not the one I was quoting from but the first url from Google Keith !!
http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com/Thailand-Divorce.php

Divorce in thailand-Paragraph One
Divorce if living overseas-Paragraph two.

rolyshark
9th Dec 2008, 04:33
Am in Khorat on holiday at the moment but on return if your forum has the facility I will scan it in for you to see yourselves.
Enjoy your holiday.
Scan it in if you like,no doubt it is what you were told,but doesn't prevent it being incorrect! :)

Incidentally,I take the view that the costs figure given by Tobias may be on the low side. The last Petitioner I did in this kind of circumstance was awarded £2500,just on the divorce. Of course done to get some response and meaningful progress from the Respondent...

No doubt you were satisfied with the fee you paid,which is what matters. Akin to those who pay agencies to deal with their visa applications-unnecessary,but their choice.

AndyThomas
9th Dec 2008, 04:42
So please tell me Rolyshark how you would have gone about contacting and speaking to a Thai National who has returned to her home village with any/all previous marriage documents without engaging a solicitor within Thailand ??

How would you personally have gone about it ??

The taxi fare alone would have cost 4000 baht just on the first day of attempting to civilly communicate with her.

I was delighted at 5,600 in total believe me !!

Tobias
9th Dec 2008, 04:52
Andy, the only issue I have with what you say is the suggestion that if you marry in Thailand then you must divorce in Thailand. That statement is not correct and if your solicitor has told you that then he is mistaken both in law and in fact.

I have seen certain Thai lawyers websites stating that what you say is the case but they too are wrong. The English courts are not bound by Thai law and English law will always take precedence over foreign law where necessary.

There are two reasons your solicitor might have said what you say s/he said. The first being that either you or your wife had not been 'habitually resident' in England in the year leading up to the issue of proceedings or that you (being the petitioner) had not been 'domiciled' in England and been habitually resident here for a period of 6 months. Both 'habitually resident' and 'domiciled' have a specific legal meaning.

The second possibility is that under English law a marriage must have subsisted for at least one year before the court can be petitioned for a divorce. In Thailand there is no such requirement.

Of course, there is a third reason and that is quite simply that an administrative divorce is the easiest and the cheapest by far ... but both parties need to consent to that. All that said, the statement "... if you marry in Thailand you must divorce in Thailand" is wrong. So, to be clear, the English courts do have jurisdiction to grant a divorce - even for marriages conducted abroad.

sundayfunday1971
9th Dec 2008, 05:24
Could anyone point out a good lawyer in the UK & a lawyer in Bangkok to get things moving thanks james

IanB
9th Dec 2008, 05:26
For a first post likewise and certainly dont wish to cause friction but if you married in Thailand, you must divorce in Thailand !

Thats really strange. I married my first wife in Thonburi (Thailand) in 1990. We got divorced in England about 7 years ago.

richardb
9th Dec 2008, 05:32
I have to agree with Tobias and Rolyshark. I am interested to see that sunbelt are charging 30,000 baht minimum plus expenses for a contested divorce.

Whatever the law from a pragmatic point of view it might suite the OP ( or anyone else ) just to pay everyone off to walk away. Though I can see the OP's reluctance after the unexpected turn of events on the wedding day.

Richard

duster
9th Dec 2008, 05:55
If the posters on this site did not exist we would have to invent them.

Tobias
9th Dec 2008, 14:19
Originally posted by richardb:
I have to agree with Tobias and Rolyshark. I am interested to see that sunbelt are charging 30,000 baht minimum plus expenses for a contested divorce. Indeed, you can bet the ฿30,000 is only a 'teaser' rate and will be nothing like what the final bill will eventually be. F.A.T. is often applied at a very high rate of 'think-of-a-number' percent :rolleyes:

AndyThomas
9th Dec 2008, 17:37
To IanB,

Then you will find you are still effectively married from before Ian.

Your colleague Tobias obviously is from the legal profession but am afraid he is wrong on this occasion.

Am not going to get into a war of words as thats not my style only to say you cannot complete any divorce without at some point returning to Thailand to finalise papers etc.

If anyone still disputes what I say so be it.Im not the one who becomes a bigamist however unlikely that it might come to light.

It might be prudent for one of you to join thaivisa.com and pose the question for yourselves.

rolyshark
9th Dec 2008, 19:23
Originally posted by AndyThomas:
So please tell me Rolyshark how you would have gone about contacting and speaking to a Thai National who has returned to her home village with any/all previous marriage documents without engaging a solicitor within Thailand ??

How would you personally have gone about it ??

The taxi fare alone would have cost 4000 baht just on the first day of attempting to civilly communicate with her.

I was delighted at 5,600 in total believe me !!

I don't want to trade exchanges with you Andy,as you were happy with your result,which is what matters as I indicated in my previous post.

You might want to ask the question on divorce yourself on ThaiVisa and post a link here,although you'll find many members here are there as well.

However,you ask what I personally would have done.
Simply this (assuming you were bent on fee paying and had exhausted the usual social network)-instruct an enquiry agent/process server to trace,discuss and serve. The fee is £25-£50,but only if successful. Worked for clients of mine where the other half had "disappeared" to India/Pakistan,no reason to suggest it would be any different in Thailand.

AndyThomas
10th Dec 2008, 02:58
Rolyshark,

Will take that last suggestion as the joke you obviously like to serve on new guys/girls to your forum.

I dont need to post an enquiry on Thaivisa though I know 100% the response I would get if I/you did.

I can also confirm that certain individuals have been duped by the Thai Embassy in London into believing marriages could be dissolved via themselves in London.
Fortunately for the Brit on that occasion, it was his former wife who subsequently went to remarry in Thailand only to have no doubt the biggest shock of her life and find she was very much still married from before.

How do I know this ?
The gentleman concerned was a second cousin of myself and I MYSELF acted as one of two witnesses that day I am ashamed to say.

Thats me finished on the subject-will answer anyones query via a personal message, but not on the open forum.

Andy

Tobias
10th Dec 2008, 03:13
Andy, your assertion that if you were married in Thailand you must divorce in Thailand is wrong.

Originally posted by AndyThomas:
It might be prudent for one of you to join thaivisa.com and pose the question for yourselves. Why would I want to do that? Why would I rely on the guesswork of misinformed or mal-advised laymen?

The law in England is clear and unequivocal in this regard. Notwithstanding the capital letters found on Thai lawyers' websites and the postings of concerned (if misinformed) laymen on Thailvisa, those who are married abroad (including Thailand) can be divorced in the UK through the courts. This view is held not just by the 3 lawyers who have posted in this particular thread/topic above, but by the judiciary of the English courts who have been granting and continue to grant divorces to those who were married abroad - including Thailand.

Thailand cannot impose their laws on the UK courts or attempt to tie the hands or limit the efficacy of the English legal system.

Tobias
10th Dec 2008, 03:17
Originally posted by AndyThomas:
... I can also confirm that certain individuals have been duped by the Thai Embassy in London into believing marriages could be dissolved via themselves in London.
Fortunately for the Brit on that occasion, it was his former wife who subsequently went to remarry in Thailand only to have no doubt the biggest shock of her life and find she was very much still married from before.
That is an entirely different kettle of fish Andy. Only a court can grant a divorce in the UK. The Thai Embassy is not able to grant a valid divorce recognised under UK law.

If you look through the forum here we have had this discussion many times.

Tobias
10th Dec 2008, 03:27
Andy, with respect to:


Originally posted by AndyThomas:
Thats me finished on the subject-will answer anyones query via a personal message, but not on the open forum.
Andy, don't expect to come in to this forum and post wrong and misleading information and expect it not to be challenged. Thailand-UK prides itself on the quality and reliability of the information found in its forums. We make no apology for that. It is vital that all the information found here is correct, up to date and legally sound. Your first post contained incorrect and misleading information, it was challenged.

By all means post the letters from your 2 solicitors and you will get responses to them I'm sure. Saying the thing via Private Message does not make it any more right, telling us 2 solicitors said you are right does not make it right.

rolyshark
10th Dec 2008, 03:30
Will take that last suggestion as the joke you obviously like to serve on new guys/girls to your forum.
:confused: no joke.

However,it becomes apparant that you believed the Thai embassy in UK could dissolve a marriage. As Tobias indicates,it cannot,but perhaps this is where your confusion arises.

It is disingenuous to suggest that you must return to Thailand to divorce.

michael001
10th Dec 2008, 03:43
oh dear Andy Thomas you must get your head out of the sand,
if only to realise that in this big wide world other people in their fields of expertise pocess a knowledge they share with other members of this forum for free, you don't have to do what is advised but have the good sense to listen and be gratious, i am not one of these professional people but i did marry a thaigirl in 2000 in Bangkok and subsequently obtained a settlement visa for the UK, sadly the marriage did not survive past 2003 and we divorced in the UK.i remarried in Bangkok 3 weeks after the divorce went back to the embassy and obtained a 2yr settlement visa for the UK.
No i am not a bigamist

Noi & Nick
10th Dec 2008, 07:05
My understanding is:-
A divorce through the courts in the UK is valid in both the UK and Thailand.

A divorce in Thailand, whether at the ampur or through the courts, is valid in both the UK and Thailand.

A divorce at the RTE in London is valid in Thailand but not in the UK.

Mr. Thomas, you do not want to get into an argument about the law with Tobias, nor Rolyshark or Richardb; if you do then you will lose.

Edit. Ooops, wrote the above before noticing this topic was now onto a second page! :o

IanB
10th Dec 2008, 07:08
Tee hee, I'm a bigamist!

How wrong can one man be?!!!!

Ian

Noi & Nick
10th Dec 2008, 07:22
Originally posted by AndyThomas:
I dont need to post an enquiry on Thaivisa though I know 100% the response I would get if I/you did. Well, you'd be wrong again. I've just done a quick search on TV and guess what? They agree that a divorce outside of Thailand is recognised in Thailand.

Scally
10th Dec 2008, 07:35
Just reading through this, basically mate some members who know what they are talking about have given good advice, its up to you if you want to listen or not, take your own advice from someone else and then make a call in what you need to do but my own opinion is I wouldnt give her a baht!

Noi & Nick
10th Dec 2008, 10:55
Originally posted by sundayfunday1971:
Could anyone point out a good lawyer in the UK & a lawyer in Bangkok to get things moving thanks james Sorry, James, this seems to have been missed due to the thread being taken off at a tangent!

If you know her whereabouts and can contact her then why bother with the expense of a lawyer (Thai or British) at this stage?

Simply follow Tobias' advice given in his first post.

Contact her and tell her that she can agree to meet you at the Ampur to sign the divorce papers or you will go to court to seek a divorce on the grounds of her desertion and adultery. Tell her that as you can prove both you will win and the court will say that she will have to pay all the costs, and if she refuses to pay then the court will be after her for the money.

Merseymike
10th Dec 2008, 13:16
Originally posted by IanB:
Tee hee, I'm a bigamist!

And you know what the maximum penalty for that is?



Two mothers-in-law! :cool:

Tobias
10th Dec 2008, 14:29
:lol: the Scouse sense of humour :lol: :clap: :thumb: