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View Full Version : Thai-farang divorce rate soars in KK



maokaang
8th Dec 2007, 01:35
"Over 100 Thai women file for divorce with foreign husbands in Khon Kaen in 3 months"

Link to The Nation article (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30058586)

Little wonder. Living here you can witness many such "disasters waiting to happen." Man meets girl in bar or on the internet. Goes to Khon Kaen. Married after spending only a few weeks together. Buys house and car. Paradise.

A few months later, car, house and wife all lost.

I can see 4 such houses from my office window here in Khon Kaen, all recently purchased by farangs - 1 Swede, 1 German, 1 American, 1 British - now either abandoned and up for sale, or in the sole possession of a smiling ex-wife. If I stretch my neck a little further out the window there are several more that seem destined to head the same way. It's painful to see, especially over and over again.

While even the best of relationships can go pear shaped, surely the odds are stacked heavily against someone who rushes into a marriage and home, especially in a foreign country.

I recall being prompted to post the following a little while back:
THAILAND-UK HEALTH WARNING: GETTING MARRIED TO SOMEONE YOU BARELY KNOW MAY SERIOUSLY DAMAGE YOUR WEALTH. Probably not the daftest thing I've ever written by far. :)

manfarang
8th Dec 2007, 03:09
There's no fool like an old fool - so they say :crazy:

Actually, I thought the story of the King's advice that all police cars should use Biodiesel (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30058316)

from the same link to the Nation, was more interesting.

The sight of the boys in brown cooking up biodiesel in their compounds would be most hilarious to me. :lol:

Apologies if wandering off topic.

db1
8th Dec 2007, 03:12
Paul, what sort of price's are the house's in question?

my wife and I are looking to buy for the future.

bilbo
8th Dec 2007, 03:55
When people decide to move or buy property in Thailand they tend to buy in the area that their partner came from I wonder if this is part of the problem that couples have.

1/ Their close to relatives this can cause problems. 2/ The weather in some of these places is extreme. 3/ There is not enough going on Tv can be boring if you don't have the language skills.4/ Good hospital if getting on in years most important.

Far better to choose a place more suitable for self than Thai partner after all it's your money.

Tobias
8th Dec 2007, 04:08
Originally posted by bilbo:
... Far better to choose a place more suitable for self than Thai partner after all it's your money. I'd get my head chopped off just for thinking that bilbo!

Fortunately, Jenny is nowadays more European than Thai and is very settled here. In Bangkok last week she was saying how difficult it would now be for her to live there again. We have spoken about buying a property in Thailand for holidays and for friends and family to use, but it would be just that - a base for a vacation. Home for both of us is definitely the UK.

If we do decide to buy, it will be Jenny who will make the final decision of where. We like to make decisions jointly and all decisions are based on what is best for the family as a whole, rather than one individual.

maokaang
8th Dec 2007, 04:46
Paul, what sort of price's are the house's in question? I would guess between 3 and 5 million baht. They're not going to be easy to sell, Thais don't like buying second hand property.

Of the four I mentioned, 2 are vacant and for sale, the other 2 must have already been paid for in full by the farangs as they are still occupied by the ex-wives. Those are just the ones within eyeshot of my place, there are many others just like them elsewhere.

The closest of the four backs onto our house. It was the proud new home of a (not very old) Swedish chap. He'd just had guttering installed and a few other bits done, but his wife couldn't keep away from her Thai boyfriend, a young chap who worked at McDonalds and stopped over at the house whenever the Swedish guy was working abroad. Marriage over after only a few months and the house was completely emptied out, she even took the UBC dish with her! Everything driven away in the back of a pick-up truck already paid for by the Swede. As of today the grass is 5 foot high and the house is still up for sale.

:shrug:

caller
8th Dec 2007, 04:55
As we've moved off topic, Paul's post again raises the question as to why houses are not marketed at a price that will sell? Seems to be the case everywhere in LOS and they remain empty and fall into disrepair.

Or is it because they hope the land will keep increasing in value?

dan&ploy
8th Dec 2007, 05:23
Jenny is nowadays more European than Thai and is very settled here.

Same here Toby, Ploy doesn't want to go back to Thailand, except for a holiday. So we are keeping the house in Saraburi for just that and we will probably give it to Ploy's daughter at some point. Home for us is here in Canada now.

She does occasionally mention getting a house by the sea in Chon Buri as that has always been our dream, but I think Chon Buri will be replaced with Bayfield. Just a little chillier.

http://www.danploy.com/Assets/Personal_photos/Bayfield.jpg

maokaang
8th Dec 2007, 05:37
raises the question as to why houses are not marketed at a price that will sell? It baffles me. Second hand prices seem to stay stubbornly high and, like you say, places remain unsold for years.

There's no end of new properties being sold here, but the second hand ones seem to stay on the market for a hell of a long time.

Stubbornness on price doesn't just apply to property for sale either. When I first came to Khon Kaen, nine years ago, there was a cracking little restaurant called "The Parrot" on the main road in town. It was my favourite place in Khon Kaen at the time. About 7½ years ago, the landlord of the building lost a few tenants so decided to double the rent on the others to make up his loss. End result: No more tenants, including "The Parrot" which closed down very shortly after. The property has had a "To Let" sign on it ever since, but no-one has ever been daft enough to accept the rent figures quoted and the landlord won't budge on price. The place is falling apart now. I don't think I'll ever understand the logic behind it all.

If, when visiting Khon Kaen, you ever go to a place called "First Choice" near the Khon Kaen Hotel, the same lady who runs that also used to run "The Parrot".

:shrug:

Flip
8th Dec 2007, 05:46
Always baffled me too Paul. It would seem that Thai property developers, landlords etc etc are not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. Could face have anything to do with it?

Neil & Mook
8th Dec 2007, 07:25
well all i can say is when i hear about farangs getting divorced is that the settlement figure is alwas pretty low. The most an ex gets is a house worth 3 million baht and a two year old pick up, thats cheap!!! I work in law and see much worse with men walking away with maintenace orders and lucky to get a 75/25 split in assetts. I'm sure others on this site especially solicitors and barristers would agree that the figures are peanuts when you sit down and have a good think about it. If i ever divorce, i hope that my settlement is that.

Tobias
8th Dec 2007, 07:57
That's all well and good Neil if the divorce is via the Thai legal system - but a wife/husband also has the ability to petition the English courts for a financial order, even after a Thai divorce! The Thai 'quickie' divorce may not necessarily be as final as one might, at first, believe.

I'm all for inter-party negotiation, if the husband and wife can walk away happy with the split of the matrimonial assets and with maintenance for any children properly and adequately provided for, all well and good. The problems usually only arise when one party becomes greedy or selfish.

Flip
8th Dec 2007, 08:10
3 million is peanuts? Not if you've only been married a couple of months its not. Not a bad little earner for the wife but hey, if the guy checked his brain in at Heathrow along with his luggage, its hardly surprising.

I don't think anyone could claim not to have heard the horror stories - they should be more careful.

Just one thing you should consider Neil - some of these guys invest everything they've got and arrive back in farangland with nothing. To them circa £44,000 is a hell of a lot.

maokaang
8th Dec 2007, 08:40
3 million is peanuts? Not if you've only been married a couple of months its not. Precisely. Believe me, listening to these ladies, some have no intention of making a relationship out of anything. Of those playing for a quick buck, their worst fear is having to last out for years rather than months before being able to pull the plug and grab the loot.

The ex-wife of the American I mentioned in my opening post still lives at the house, so does the car. He's back in the USA explaining to his grandkids where their college fund has gone. Since he left, she's introduced us to the 3 kids she never told him about. She also forgot to mention to him that she drinks like a fish and smokes like a chimney. Oh yes, and there's the obligatory Thai boyfriend too. She's still in touch with many farangs on the same dating site she met the American. Single, secretary, no children, non-smoker, doesn't drink, seeking .... yeh, right! I wonder where her next house will be built?

This goes on the world over, and Thailand has been on the receiving end of many worldwide reports about its "gold diggers". They are a very, very tiny minority of the Thai population, most of whom would be horrified by such behaviour, but do form a much higher proportion of those putting themselves forward to meet westerners. As Flip says, a lot of farangs do seem to ignore the warnings and leave their brains at the airport when they come here.

:crazy:

ian allcock
8th Dec 2007, 09:15
Paul,
Talking of houses for sale,can you recommend any links to websites advertising properties for sale in Khon Kaen and the surrounding area
Thanks

Ian & wi

ian allcock
8th Dec 2007, 09:18
Before anyone asks no i'm not trying to divorce the wife :lol:

Ian

maokaang
8th Dec 2007, 09:41
Talking of houses for sale,can you recommend any links to websites advertising properties for sale in Khon Kaen and the surrounding area What sort of house and price range are you looking at? I may be able to give you a list of estates with houses that fit the bill. It's probably best to deal with a developer direct rather than through a website or agency.

To give you an opening idea, this website deals mainly with properties by Piman Group:

http://www.khonkaenhomes.com

Like I said though, deal direct rather than via the website. Most of the other companies have websites but mainly in Thai.

Regards

ian allcock
8th Dec 2007, 10:14
Thanks,
Looking at 4 million mark bungalow or house,missus wants a big garden or paddy field :lol:
Will take a look at your link now

Ian

badgeroi
8th Dec 2007, 11:06
yep !!!! they only want your money. they dont want a re;ationship at all. the only thing that interestes them is money and building a house. my thai has been in uk for 3 years now and at the beginning of the year i discovered that she had moved £5k form our account to thailand. i was not happy.
after that i knew that i cannot trust her and our relationship has steadily deterioratred. she will soon be on the way out.
but she has still manged to get her ILR and build a house in 3 yrs.
anyone thinking of marrying a thai should think very carefully before being caught in their web!!!!!

Flip
8th Dec 2007, 11:24
"My Thai"???

You make her sound like a commodity. Sorry to hear your problems but you should remember, the bad ones are a very small minority but make good news fodder.

db1
8th Dec 2007, 11:26
Get A life badgeroi

maokaang
8th Dec 2007, 12:05
Badgeroi, I too am sorry to hear about your problems.

Quote from badgeroi, July 2004:
i met my g/f in march and wanted her to come to uk for the summer before i go back to thailand in september to marry. So, you started making wedding plans after meeting her for the very first time in March 2004. Was the next time you were together your wedding in September 2004? Maybe I missed out a holiday in between, but you've never mentioned one. It looks like you'd only actually spent a few weeks together before tying the knot.

I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but don't you think that was bit hasty?

You took a gamble on someone you barely knew ... what's the outcome?

BTW, did you ever meet up with or speak to her 'friends' in Cork she got a visit visa to see shortly before you met her?


anyone thinking of marrying a thai should think very carefully before being caught in their web!!!!! Anyone thinking of marrying ANYONE should take their time and get to know them before rushing into things. Especially if they want to point the blame away from themselves three years down the line.

Prenders
8th Dec 2007, 13:16
My mate who has a internet shop in Udon Thani around the corner from us.
He has lots of girls that come in and log on to the dating sites, quite a few of them have two, three, four, guys on the go at any one time.

Here is one of the favourite sites
[MODERATOR EDIT: Link to dating agency removed - sorry, forum policy]

Dead give away when they specify 18-80 in the age range. :lol:

Neil & Mook
8th Dec 2007, 17:01
I have no sympathy when these idiots get ripped off by their thai wives. If men go over to LOS with all their life savings and stick it into a property or business that is legally not theirs then they deserve what they get. Unfortunately these people do not go into things with there eyes open and make big mistakes, mostly by trying to open bars,businesses when they have never worked in these industries before. Then they blame it all on the missus when it all goes wrong.
I have a house in LOS and would happily walk away from it, if i had to.

caller
8th Dec 2007, 17:11
Originally posted by Neil & Mook:
I have no sympathy when these idiots get ripped off by their thai wives. If men go over to LOS with all their life savings and stick it into a property or business that is legally not theirs then they deserve what they get. Unfortunately these people do not go into things with there eyes open and make big mistakes, mostly by trying to open bars,businesses when they have never worked in these industries before. Then they blame it all on the missus when it all goes wrong.
I have a house in LOS and would happily walk away from it, if i had to.

Well lucky you!

Lets hope you never get to join the "idiot" brigade!!

I thought the post was about divorce in KK, which led to Paul giving some examples of some pretty professional con ladies by the sounds of it, with no mention of bars or businesses.

Maybe in the cases mentioned, the guys could walk away from it as well?

Neil & Mook
8th Dec 2007, 17:19
yep lucky me :banana:

KhunIanB-UK
8th Dec 2007, 17:21
Also there is the harm on the reflection that it has on those that have a "Thai" genuine wife that does not fit the criterion of a rip off agent. Mostly established over time and the benfits this brings rather than the offer of an "easy lay". My relationship has it's ups and downs, unfortunately mentally rather than physically, and happens to be with a Thai wife. Would it be any better with another nationality? I think not and that it could well be be worse! Depends on compatibility and personality more than anything else IMHO. If you don't give it time to find out if the compatibility is there then well...

Neil & Mook
8th Dec 2007, 17:42
Thai women are often treated badly in the media, and in real life with the "ting tong" and bargirl comments. UK men lose money all over the world everyday in foreign marriages but it's only Thai women that are reported in the press as gold diggers. Do i feel sorry for these guys - some maybe, but most - not at all. The story is always one sided and the wifes view is never printed. What about the divorced girls in khon khean do thry have kids? I wager a bet at least 30% do, so what happens to the children. If they do get to keep a thai house then that is fair, even if the relationship was not long.

tudor & pim
8th Dec 2007, 18:31
Ploy doesn't want to go back to Thailand, except for a holiday
Pim doesn't want to go back to Thailand, EVEN for a holiday.
Of course she may mellow in a decade or two.
Then we might retain a permanent UK home and rent a Thai home, as and when.
It's a simple calculation in Isaan. A fancy 3 bed, 3 bath, new air-con home retails for 2-3 million. But it rents for a mere 5-8,000 Baht month if you know where to look. Thus it only makes financial sense to buy if you know you're going to occupy full time for 20-30 years. No. Nothing in Thailand lasts that long!
Meanwhile there's no second hand market to speak of. (The benefit being not many parasitic estate agents) No capital appreciation to look forward to. There is rapid deterioration of the already inferior fabric with extreme weather and termites that can eat concrete and steel. Have a problem with your neighbour and he will win, not you. And then you're stuffed. You can't sell up and move south, back to UK or on to the Philippines.
At the risk of being controversial, it seems to us a lot of house purchases are made either to show off Thai style or because people are making false comparisons with inflated Western prices. That's not a like for like comparison.

maokaang
8th Dec 2007, 18:46
OK, while I'm in the mood, here's another story for you:

Young chap from England moved to Khon Kaen ten years before this story begins, by which time he's still only in his 30s and speaks, reads and writes Thai fluently. I'll call him George.

George has never been married and has managed to stay single throughout his 10 years here. He carefully chooses his girlfriends, all from good backgrounds and every one a stunner, but has never fallen into the marriage trap.

Until he meets one particular and very special lady. Like all his previous girlfriends, she's from a well-to-do family and very pretty. Only she has swept him off his feet.

Now, George is not daft. He's seen hundreds of others fall for various cons and has resisted the temptation to marry scores of times before. He understands Thai and Thai people better than most around here so is bound to spot a scam a mile off.

They have a lavish wedding to befit her social status in a very expensive hotel. His family are over from the UK and the wedding is a grand affair. Several million baht has changed hands in wedding gifts and away they go for their wedding night.

I'm not sure if the wedding lasted 4 hours or 4 days, but she has never been seen since. Away with all the gold and gifts. Gone.

Now, it's all very well for Neil and others to sound smug at how well their marriages have worked out and how stupid all these other farangs are for falling for the con-artists. But, if this fella can be fooled, what hope is there for the greener arrivals .. which accounts for nearly all of us at the time we met our future partners when compared to George.

You can improve your odds greatly by taking your time before getting married but nothing is ever certain. Yes, the fools are the ones that rush into things, but I wouldn't sit back and be smug about it.

:shrug:

I think it's also important to emphasise what I said before:
This goes on the world over, and Thailand has been on the receiving end of many worldwide reports about its "gold diggers". They are a very, very tiny minority of the Thai population, most of whom would be horrified by such behaviour, but do form a much higher proportion of those putting themselves forward to meet westerners.
Caveat emptor.

Regards

maokaang
8th Dec 2007, 18:50
What about the divorced girls in khon khean do thry have kids? I wager a bet at least 30% do I'd take that bet, but I don't gamble. I would estimate closer to 80% have kids, but very few from their farang marriage. I would also bet that a fair proportion of those kids have absolutely no idea mummy just got married ... and divorced ... again.

:crazy:

packpao
9th Dec 2007, 02:15
You can improve your odds greatly by taking your time before getting married but nothing is ever certain
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Tukta
9th Dec 2007, 02:22
easy and simply! if you scare don't go there OR don't marry to thai women!!!

John
9th Dec 2007, 03:21
I can see 4 such houses from my office window here in Khon Kaen, all recently purchased by farangs - 1 Swede, 1 German, 1 American, 1 British - now either abandoned and up for sale, or in the sole possession of a smiling ex-wife.

I have just read all through this thread. As regards property, is it unreasonable to think that no property would be bought with the non-Thai's money, unless he is granted a 30-year lease?

Surely that is a sensible precaution, stopping the (ex-)wife making off with all the proceeds if the property does get sold.

That is, property bought in name of Thai wife (as required by Thai law) using money provided by the non-Thai husband, but Thai wife grants a 30-year lease to the non-Thai husband.

Result? If the marriage does break down then wife cannot sell property unless she agrees to hand over a payment to the husband for cancellation of the remaining lease.

And if marriage does not break down, husband's Will can leave the lease to the wife, leading to its cancellation.

Surely a sensible precaution!

db1
9th Dec 2007, 03:58
I must be a very lucky man, I hear all the storeys on here but my wife does not fall into any of these, I knew her for two years before we married I think that makes a diffrence to most marraiges, She is kind, loving, gentle, very Thai in her ways, has a job she loves keeps her own money from this job does not mix with other Thais, loves shopping in second hand shops, ie age concern or any charity shop, hates to pay full price for anything, we wait till sales darling she says, phones home every day to speak to Mum and Dad, likes to go home for christmas and new year, but loves living in England, but we are saving to buy a house in Thailand when I retire.

maokaang
9th Dec 2007, 05:26
I have just read all through this thread. As regards property, is it unreasonable to think that no property would be bought with the non-Thai's money, unless he is granted a 30-year lease? A 30 year lease is one option, another is a Usufruct agreement. The developers of our estate advise all farangs of their options and strongly encourage them to protect themselves. At the end of the day, it is up to the farang whether they heed that advice or not. I, personally, can't think of a single reason not to.

I am astonished at how many choose to ignore it.

Mrbiggus
9th Dec 2007, 06:39
All I know is that these con Thai lades who lie whole heartedly continuously for many months to many years to their naive gullible (honest decent kind husband) make a mockery of trust, loyalty and the sanctity of marriage, for greed of money.
These (what you guys call a small few) Thai women are creating a very bad race relations with the West. My whole family and friends about 200-300 people will not trust a Thai person and treat them with some form of suspicion. Do not think that when a single person is scammed then only that individual is the one affected, that person knows many people and soon his/hers story gets around. Giving very bad feelings towards Thai people like your wives.
For an exclusive minority group of people who are living in the UK as guests I think that they should try and stop this form of con instead of saying “Som Nam Naa”. That is like calling a Celtic supporter a Protestant. Stop rubbing salt into the wound as all it’s going to do is make it more inflamed.
I would also like to know where to find all these so called warnings? From what I’ve read bad press is racist or only a tiny minority.
Where the hell are these warnings?
Why the hell don’t these so called good Thai women in Thailand stop these scams?
Have they not heard of The Woman’s Liberation Movement?
It might do the country some good as I believe that the country has a very bad press regarding its women or am I mistaken for a fool.

Flip
9th Dec 2007, 06:39
"I am astonished at how many choose to ignore it."


Paul - probably because of the claim "if you do that you don't love me". :)

If that was said to me, the purchase would be cancelled and I would think twice about my marriage but I've heard quite a few examples of similar 'threats' being made.

Flip
9th Dec 2007, 06:51
Mr Biggus,

What do you mean 'so called good Thai women'? And how the hell could they possibly 'stop these scams'?

Burglary is rife in the UK for example and is usually carried out by males - would you then say, why don't the good guys stop them?

Of course Thailand has something of a reputation and Thai ladies are thought (wrongly) to be rip off merchants on the make from unsuspecting foreigners. But the reason for that is because you never hear about the successful marriages where no scam has taken place - they are not news are they?

I would go further and say that in some cases 'scam' is mistaken for the desire to be finacially stable and secure - something that is bred into many asian cultures. Girls are often taught that financial stability should be one of their main considerations when choosing a husband. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know the difference.

I'm afraid that the reputation of Thailand and its ladies is something that we just have to live with.

"Where the hell are these warnings?"

Most people that I talk to did a fair amount of research before they ever went to Thailand. It is very difficult to do a search on the internet, for example, and not find stories about the scams. I would find it difficult to believe that anyone could not have heard about such thing nowadays.

If you have any difficulty in finding stories that should warn anyone to be on their guard - type 'Thai Girl Scam' into the google search engine.

Mrbiggus
9th Dec 2007, 09:49
It's about time the UK took these steps

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/10/01/shamwedding_041001.html
Wife jailed for sham marriage

Dear Flip

I think your logic is a bit confused. I find it strange that you equate a woman from a foreign country as a burglar.

Moderator edit (Rolyshark) irrelevancy deleted and to be considered elsewhere

John
9th Dec 2007, 10:25
A 30 year lease is one option, another is a Usufruct agreement.

Can you give more details about an Usafruct agreement?

Mrbiggus
9th Dec 2007, 10:40
[MODERATOR EDIT (Tobias): Content removed]

<span class="ev_code_red">Just because you apparently had a "bad 'un" Mrbiggus, doesn't give you the right to offend the rest of the Thai community. There is no place in this forum for such offensive and derogatory comments. Any further comments of similar ilk will be removed.[/color]

-Keith-
9th Dec 2007, 11:35
Siarnara

Shut the door on your way out. Goodbye.

Flip
9th Dec 2007, 12:24
Nothing wrong with my logic at all Mr Biggus, I think most readers will understand the equation I was making. Anyway, little point in elaborating as you are clearly biased due to a bad personal experience.

maokaang
9th Dec 2007, 13:49
Can you give more details about an Usafruct agreement? Yes, the basics are explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usufruct


Re: Mr Big<STRIKE>gus</STRIKE>ot: This 7 hour time difference can be a darned nuisance. What a palaver! Once again, I missed out on all the fun. :crazy:

Kanlaya
13th Dec 2007, 03:58
I heard so much about Farang been ripe off by thai-girl and it make me laugh becasue most of them are proably highly educated than a thai-girl but never use they head. They only listen to they private part.

I'm just so upset every time i read an article about something like this. I live in the uk and every where i went people alway look at me funny because thai-girl have such a bad reputation. why don't they look at the opposite way or blame a man because they're not clever enough to see who after they heart or they money. or picking a girl from a bar and marry them from only one night, or even week standing.

Or why don't find a girl that work in a normal places not a bar or from an internet. Why don't use your head before you should a wife???

If you don't why don't you try to blame yourself next time you been ripped off???

Tobias
13th Dec 2007, 04:15
You make some good points there Kanlaya, some I wholeheartedly agree with.