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Wolfy
4th Nov 2010, 22:14
In today's new UK national newspaper "I", a 20p dumbed down version of the Independant.

Great news for our mate Bryn. His 60,000 chickens could soon be heading this way...

The headline story...

"Britains biggest animal welfare society RSPCA is urging shoppers to shun standard British chicken and buy meat imported from Thailand. The RSPCA claims standards in the latter country are higher than in basic UK production"

The Farming Page (7)...

"When it comes to chicken, buy Thai, says RSPCA"

article written by M Hickman consumer affairs correspondent

Shoppers who care about animal welfare should shun standard british chicken and buy meat imported from thousands of miles away in Thailand, according to the RSPCA.

Britain's biggest animal welfare charity said that the standards in two of the biggest poultry exporters, Thailand and Brazil, were generally higher than in basic UK production.

The RSPCA said Thai poultry had more space- around 13 chickens per square metre compared with 20 per square metre in the UK, and were allowed to grow for longer.

Dr Mark Cooper, an RSPCA farm animal welfare scientist (i reckon he's been on the c-sip 40 degree with Bryn) said "based on what i saw it would be safer to make the assumption and say that chicken that's come from Thailand has been reared to a higher welfare standard than the standard industry chicken you would buy here in the UK"

1942

cluck cluck

Marcus
5th Nov 2010, 04:16
Good news for the Thai poultry industry, for Thai chickens (perhaps) and for Bryn! Still, even though conditions for Thai chickens may be better than those for their British cousins, they are still a long way from being ideal for the happiness and welfare of each chicken.

As an aside, here's a good background article, though pretty old now, on the British/Thai chicken industry I just found:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jul/08/bse.foodanddrink


Fowl Play
They are the ultimate 21st-century food - quick, easy and highly processed. But if you knew about the high percentage of skin, the water, and the pulped carcasses that go into some of them, would you be so keen to reach into the freezer for chicken nuggets? In a major investigation, Felicity Lawrence travels to processing plants in Britain and Thailand to uncover the disturbing truth about every kid's favourite food

manfarang
5th Nov 2010, 12:05
Thailand to the UK. That's a long way for the chickens to fly. :eek:

Linne
5th Nov 2010, 18:24
i always thought thai chicken was reared in the middle of the road..........seems to be no shortage.

Bryn&Mot
6th Nov 2010, 02:19
The RSPCA said Thai poultry had more space- around 13 chickens per square metre compared with 20 per square metre in the UK

Typically we have between 10 and 12, depending on the season, hot season being 10 chickens per m2


Great news for our mate Bryn. His 60,000 chickens could soon be heading this way...


He ain't gat 60,000 wolfy, he has 18400 as of today.
And some batches already get exported to the UK,
Still not a bad profit though at around 12 baht per bird, for 37 days work, do the math,
Wish I had 60,000 birds, ;)
We reckon by next year we should have about 40,000 birds

Wolfy
6th Nov 2010, 08:49
Well done Bryn - nice to hear you are doing so well, sorry for over- exaggerating your stock. I'm no chicken farmer so excuse me for asking this question.

When the RSPCA bloke says 13 chickens per square metre and you say 10-12 does this mean you have little pens with that amount of chickens in each one ?

Perhaps you should consider purchasing some of these from the chicken co-op (i'm not on commission like Ddwjg is for Air Asia)

http://www.speedwellstar.com/product_info.php?products_id=246

You would have to buy 3066 of these pens for your flock, £99.99 each which means your outlay would only be £306,635 (or 14,565,209 baht based on an exchange rate of 47.5) plus delivery charges.

Then, in the eyes of the RSPCA's animal welfare scientist you would be the Happy Chicken King of the World.

(http://www.speedwellstar.com/product_info.php?products_id=246)

caller
6th Nov 2010, 12:34
Waitrose wouldn't agree with the RSPCA. They recently pointed out the reasons their chooks are more expensive than Tescos, for example, is that they refuse to import from Thailand due to animal husbandry concerns? As ever, you pays your money and take your choice

colin244
6th Nov 2010, 14:55
All this chicken talk reminded me of an early LOS trip and a visit to KFC in Pattaya when my g/f (Dao at that time before marrying) said to me KFC have two family of chicken one farang and one thai :rolleyes:. What she actually meant was spicey or non spicey but I assume KFC chicken originates in LOS then?

The other thing I thought odd about this KFC was the thai's were eating with knives and forks while all the farang were using their hands :confused:

colin 244

Wolfy
6th Nov 2010, 17:07
So, if i understand you correctly Colin, they are rearing Spicy Chickens for the thais - perhaps feeding them with left over chilli's etc but for farangs they are just fed on corn ?

Here's an interesting site...

http://www.downthelane.net/feedingchickens.php

Gary & Nok
6th Nov 2010, 21:33
Waitrose wouldn't agree with the RSPCA. they refuse to import from Thailand due to animal husbandry concerns?There you go Bryn, money making export opportunity to Waitrose seeing as you have a far better living conditions than the RSPCA prefer.

Bryn&Mot
7th Nov 2010, 01:42
When the RSPCA bloke says 13 chickens per square metre and you say 10-12 does this mean you have little pens with that amount of chickens in each one ?


Our chickens live in one big shed. The shed itself is the pen, they can run around anywhere they want within the shed.

And I suspect that the reason that the UK has 20 birds per m2 is to help keep them warm,
Do you realise that even here in Thailand we use big propane gas bottles and heaters to keep the birds warm on a night.

ian1208
8th Nov 2010, 00:42
Do you realise that even here in Thailand we use big propane gas bottles and heaters to keep the birds warm on a night.

:oSame as my wife then................

Marcus
8th Nov 2010, 06:37
And I suspect that the reason that the UK has 20 birds per m2 is to help keep them warm,
Yeah, right.

Still, good to see that you show concern for your chickens Bryn. Nice one.

The last time we talked about this, not so long ago, I asked a few more questions about your chickens - not to get at you personally in any way, but to demonstrate the issues involved and what is needed for real welfare for the birds. I hope you don't mind if I ask these questions again (I think you missed it the first time round).

I mean, can your chickens stretch their wings? Can they lie down? (Both soon to be required in EU regulations). Can they scratch the earth and dustbathe (essential for the wellbeing of a chicken)? Sadly, you've already said that yours can't sunbathe, which is a pity as it is a favourite pastime of chickens and important for their wellbeing.

Chickens can live to 2 years old, but yours are brought to size and slaughtered at just 40 days - thuis can cause them all kinds of health problems such as heart failure and lameness, could you consider extending their lives at all?

How much darkness do your chickens get? Many producers keep them in some level of light all the time to encourage eating and growth. Do you allow your birds darkness and rest? Of course, an entire lifetime deprived of sleep (as most chickens get) is very harmful to the birds.

What level of hock burns do you have? In British supermarkets about 80% of all chickens have hock burns - leg sores caused by prolonged contact with wood shavings which contain high levels of ammonia from the chickens’ excrement.

What about abuse of the birds from your workers? How do you ensure that workers don't kick or beat your birds? And what about the methods of slaughter? etc etc

Again, I'm not attacking you personally Bryn. In fact, I applaud all and any efforts you make for the wellbeing of your birds. I just happen to believe - and I hope you agree - that if people are going to eat other creatures, the least we can do is treat them well before they are murdered.

NB: the questions in the original post are here: http://www.thailand-uk.com/forums/showthread.php?9485-do-thais-like-dogs-or-farangs-even&p=108951&viewfull=1#post108951

colin244
8th Nov 2010, 08:24
they are rearing Spicy Chickens for the thais - perhaps feeding them with left over chilli's etc but for farangs they are just fed on corn ?

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:lol: very good wolfy but remember TIT!

colin 244

Bryn&Mot
8th Nov 2010, 13:22
I mean, can your chickens stretch their wings? Yes of course and they have the freedom to move where they want, ( within the confounds of the shed)


Can they lie down?Yes of Course they can, anytime they want.


could you consider extending their lives at all?No absoubtley not , the breed is bred for rapid growth, to maximise the birds genetic potential.


Can they scratch the earth and dustbatheNo, they scratch the sawdust and dust bathe.


How much darkness do your chickens get?About 1 hour total darkness in 24, but so doe's my dogs, my son sleeps in the day time also.


What level of hock burns do you have?Typically less than 1% , this is due to good maintanence and also the the Thai's like to nibble on the feet, so every part of the chicken here does,nt go to waste , the heat here plays a part in removing moisture from the floor and converting it to vapour , for the fans to extract, This simply cannot happen in the UK. It ain't hot enough.


What about abuse of the birds from your workers? How do you ensure that workers don't kick or beat your birds? And what about the methods of slaughter?Now way in the world will workers ill treat the birds, they get paid on weight per bird plus bonuses

Here are the methods of slaughter
http://www.sahafarms.com/profile_main.php, click on the right hand side which say's " processing plants "


that if people are going to eat other creatures, the least we can do is treat them well before they are murdered.

Yep

I have invested already around 2.5 mill baht, and I am seriously considering investing a further 3 mill baht. If I thought that the process here was anyway in humane, I would not consider it, but all things being equal, the welfare of the birds come first, giving me bigger returns on Investment ( ROI). Profit isn't a dirty word, I love the challenge of going alone. I love the challenge of caring for the birds to give me more profit. No care, no profit, FULLSTOP.

Bryn&Mot
8th Nov 2010, 14:32
If you take care of the birds,you get more profit.
Surely, anyone can see that .
Sorry if my previous post seemed a little hard, totally unintentional Marcus.

you Vegan you ,lol :shake:

Wolfy
9th Nov 2010, 07:37
yours are brought to size and slaughtered at just 40 days - thuis can cause them all kinds of health problems such as heart failure and lameness


:eek:......:confused:

Marcus
9th Nov 2010, 10:32
If you take care of the birds,you get more profit.
Surely, anyone can see that .
Sorry if my previous post seemed a little hard, totally unintentional Marcus.

you Vegan you ,lol :shake:

Thank you Bryn! Your post didn't seem hard at all! You answered all my questions when you could have just told me to take a running jump, and everything you said demonstrates what a good chap you are. If only all chicken-farmers could run their places with as much consideration and respect for the birds as you do.

Thanks again Bryn and all the best, Marcus :shake:

(Ps - not quite a vegan yet, but gradually inching in that direction!)

Tobias
9th Nov 2010, 10:47
... not quite a vegan yet, but gradually inching in that direction!

Over dinner the other night I threatened Junior Tobias that we were all 'going vegetarian' ... he grabbed his phone whislt at the table, so I asked what he was doing? "Phoning Childline" he said!

Gary & Nok
9th Nov 2010, 12:34
That's worrying that Junior Tobias should know the number for Chidline :eek:



Only joking T;)

Marcus
10th Nov 2010, 03:11
Phoning Childline he said! :lol:

Wolfy
10th Nov 2010, 15:08
Similar to when i took my kids to see the Wolves (football), somebody sitting behind me tapped me on the shoulder and said he was reporting me to the NSPCC. I asked why and he said "cruelty to children, bringing 'em 'ere" ( i will just point out we were 17th in the Championship then, and fairly crap)

-Keith-
10th Nov 2010, 17:01
( i will just point out we were 17th in the Championship then, and fairly crap)

What's changed ?

Phetchy
10th Nov 2010, 17:06
They're now 19th.

ddwjg
11th Nov 2010, 01:59
In the Premiership, though.

Dave.