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  1. #21
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    Their land being stolen by who??? This problem has been going for a long time, in Thug-sin's administration too. And one of his party's members owns such a big resort on Khao Yai as well. Exactly, he kept promises to those who voted for his party! But what about the rest of Thailand? After he was ousted, the new administration found out that the country's reserved fund was left very little. It was the result from those mega-projects of his, plus the "one million baths per village" scheme. With all due respect to the NE people, they may think Thug-sin is the remedy to poverty, but in the long run, Thailand might face the same fate as Argentina. Then Thug-sin and his family with their fortune can go and live anywhere in the world. And what choice do people in the NE and the rest of the country have? Nothing but to stay put to pick up the pieces.

    This is not a matter of the status quo, not about the people in the NE, it's about the country's benefits as a whole.
    Regards,
    Tai

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by caller View Post
    Maybe some of the older Thais who vote and are from the NE will recall their land being stolen, being forcibly relocated to where land was infertile, forests being degraded, useless dams being built robbing folk of their land, all with little or no compensation. With Protest leaders and environmentalists being killed and then being beaten themselves by the Police and military when they protested. Maybe, just maybe, thats why they don't care much for the status quo?

    What alternative do such folk have?
    This quote above is confusing. You talk about old folks remembering what happened, hence one presumes it was a long time ago. Therefore it has nothing to do with the 'status quo', which is now. What government, if any were in power at that time, and why is it relevant to the current election.

    Confused.

    Dave.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by prioritypress View Post
    Simple fact...Thaksin's a thief and a convicted criminal.

    His sister's election will be nothing to do with a new dawn or feminist enlightenment but everything to do with the family name...which is really all she has to offer.

    (S)he is (for some) the best of a bad lot.

    Nick

    Being convicted in Thailand does not mean he was guilty, and he was not convicted of corruption, only a minor charge of a conflict of interest. They got Samak on the same flimsy charge as he had a cooking programe. The democrats received corrupt and illegal payments and should have been banned, just forgotten about of course.Thaksin changed Thai politics, just look at how the Democrats have copied his polices towards the rural poor who have spent even more in the NE, you could say they have been trying to bribe people, not that it will do them much good. I expect the democrats will loose heavily, but still somehow will manage to stay in power by forming deals with smaller parties, if not give it 18 months and the tanks will be sent in again, after a few more trumped up charges have been tried.

    Nothing of this pantomime makes any difference to us of course as none of them have any policies to improve our lives here, we will always be 'aliens' with no rights having to watch that we don't upset anyone important lest our future be put at risk, trotting off to the cops every 90 days just to tell them we still live here and having to jumps through hoops when getting a moody officer on extension day.

    Nobody in Thai politics impresses at all, and most seem corrupt, lazy or just plain stupid. Maybe time to give a woman a chance as the men can't seem to bring people together.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian99 View Post
    Nothing of this pantomime makes any difference to us of course as none of them have any policies to improve our lives here,
    I know quite a few ex-pats here with wives, and more importantly, children, who would take issue with that.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian99 View Post
    Being convicted in Thailand does not mean he was guilty, and he was not convicted of corruption, only a minor charge of a conflict of interest. .
    If $1.88bn is a minor conflict of interest

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sale_of...masek_Holdings


    Nick

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian99 View Post
    Being convicted in Thailand does not mean he was guilty, and he was not convicted of corruption, only a minor charge of a conflict of interest. They got Samak on the same flimsy charge as he had a cooking programe.
    You can't be serious!! Being convicted in Thailand made him guilty as anywhere else. We do have judicial system and this was the judicial decision. And of course, would a criminal leave evidences behind waiting to be uncovered to use them against him? So the Thai authorities had to come up with something because he had to be stopped. And for Samak's case, stupid it may sound but he did breach the laws and yet again on the grounds of a conflict of interest. And if you think this kind of thing is not significant by some MPs in England got convicted only just wrongly claimed personal expenses!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by brian99 View Post
    Thaksin changed Thai politics, just look at how the Democrats have copied his polices towards the rural poor who have spent even more in the NE, you could say they have been trying to bribe people, not that it will do them much good.
    Thug-sin not just changed Thai politics, he changed some people's habits in the NE too. He changed them from believing in hard working and being self-sufficient to someone who is addicted to quick handouts.

    Quote Originally Posted by brian99 View Post
    I expect the democrats will loose heavily, but still somehow will manage to stay in power by forming deals with smaller parties, if not give it 18 months and the tanks will be sent in again, after a few more trumped up charges have been tried.
    Agree that the Democrat may lose and will somehow manage to form a coalition government. But of course it'll be according to what laws allow them to do. The party with most votes will have a chance to do that first. But if they couldn't work things out with the small parties then the second most votes party will have a chance to do so. Isn't that what happening in the UK, a coalition government? Both the Labour and the Conservative parties tried to negotiate with the Lib Dem to form a coalition right after the results released. Please do not say that it can be done else where but once it is done in Thailand it becomes unacceptable!!!
    Regards,
    Tai

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tai View Post
    And if you think this kind of thing is not significant by some MPs in England got convicted only just wrongly claimed personal expenses!!!
    Correction: It should be read: And if you think this kind of thing is not significant why some MPs in England got convicted only just wrongly claimed personal expenses!!!
    Regards,
    Tai

  8. #28
    Premium Member caller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddwjg View Post
    This quote above is confusing. You talk about old folks remembering what happened, hence one presumes it was a long time ago. Therefore it has nothing to do with the 'status quo', which is now. What government, if any were in power at that time, and why is it relevant to the current election.

    Confused.

    Dave.
    Much of it is recent history and was the basis of the long marches to Bkk. I said older, not old.

    Tai - Toxins wife was indeed implicated in the land grabs. I agree they are all as bad as each other but to say Toxin has had no impact on Thai politics is with respect, a bit silly, as is evidenced by what this election is about with warnings by Abhisit and the Countries rulers about the man. Then there is the ongoing interest in him and his sisters current role, not to mention his being re-elected as leader, a first and then the coup and all the shananagans since. The NE is empowered through him and according to reports, such as in this mornings Independent, many women now feel the same as well.

    I guess some folk are happy to have their own corrupt leader in power rather than the establishments?

    Only time will tell whether the change, influence and empowerment, whether intentional or not (I think the coup helped) bought about by Toxin will last, or just be a temporary blip? But we all know that massive change will take place in Thailand sooner rather than later, whatever the outcome of this election.

    Edit - some changes to text to improve point trying to make.

  9. #29
    Premium Member KhunIanB-UK's Avatar
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    From the Wikipedia link:- "The transaction made the Prime Minister the target of accusations that he was selling an asset of national importance to a foreign entity, and hence selling out his nation. The Democrat party spokesman called Thaksin worse than Saddam for not protecting the Thai economy from foreigners: "Dictator Saddam, though a brutal tyrant, still fought the superpower for the Iraqi motherland.""

    How much were they trying to discredit him :-S

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by caller;133252I
    guess some folk are happy to have their own corrupt leader in power rather than the establishments?
    It's not fair to say so. Let's put it this way; if I had two shirts and they both happened to be dirty, one was less dirty than the other. And I had to wear one right here right now. I'd definitely pick the less dirty one!!!
    Regards,
    Tai

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tai View Post
    It's not fair to say so. Let's put it this way; if I had two shirts and they both happened to be dirty, one was less dirty than the other. And I had to wear one right here right now. I'd definitely pick the less dirty one!!!
    Oh okay, so you're saying the current lot are less corrupt than Toxin and thats a vote winner? I don't agree with that, but each to their own.

    Toxins corruption and nepotism has been well documented, but the others? Well no, because they're still in power.

    Edit - went off topic

  12. #32
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    caller, You did not address most of my previous questions, in the main. No problem there.

    I've one more. Do you feel Thaksin, who is still fairly rich, and does not need to enter politics again, is involved with these Thai elections via his sister, because he cares for the Thai people so much, after all he doesn't need to do so?

    What a man. To give of his time, and his money, for no reward. Just for the good of the Thai people. I'm sure if he was a christian, he would be in line for sainthood, don't you think? .

    Dave.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tai View Post
    You can't be serious!! Being convicted in Thailand made him guilty as anywhere else. We do have judicial system and this was the judicial decision.

    But the judicial system in Thailand is a joke, even Mr T said 25% of those in Thai prisons were innocent. You are meant to be innocent until proved guilty, in practice it is the other way around. Judges are poorly trained and often got into post due to family influence and or money, much like the top millitary and Police. I don't care who wins as being products of a corrupt dishonest system they are all pretty much the same. if I did have the vote I would vote for the woman though as Mr A has failed to live up to his much promised reconciliation and has proved to be even more draconian then Mr T. Give the woman a crack at it, I'd love to see all those guys loosing face when getting their orders from her

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Thaddeus View Post
    I know quite a few ex-pats here with wives, and more importantly, children, who would take issue with that.
    who do they think will improve ex pat lives and how? Are you thinking of the Democrats planed law to steal ex pat land and houses in Phuket 'bought' by proxy?

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by prioritypress View Post
    If $1.88bn is a minor conflict of interest

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sale_of...masek_Holdings


    Nick
    I am always amazed at how many quote wikipedia as gospel, if you ever really know something about a subject the articles are often either wrong, or as biased as a newspaper.

  14. #34
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    Brian99, Brilliant statements in your last post. You must have been in vey close proximity to the hierarchy in Thailand to have such privileged knowledge. Such awareness of how judges get their positions, and all those facts about the prison system. We are lucky to have a member with such inside knowledge. At least we know what you say is gospel, which is reassuring with so much misinformation about.

    Dave.

  15. #35
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    brian99

    So you're telling me you know more than the Bangkpost, The Nation, Businessweek or AFP?

    A couple more examples:

    Thai govt gives "soft loan" to Burma. Thaksin owned company get 600m Bahts worth of orders.

    http://www.nationmultimedia.com/spec...wcase.php?id=6

    Thaksin's son get's awarded exclusive advertising rights to the Bangkok metro (at the age of 23)

    http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/articl...parentid=10488

    etc etc etc

    Do your research!


    Nick

  16. #36
    Member สมาชิก poo's Avatar
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    Mr Thaksin dangled inducements to the poor(and largely uneducated) knowing fine well that it was a vote winner.Everytime I see him i keep looking for horns growing out of his head;reminds one of a certain mythical character who uses similar tricks to 'gain' souls.His daughter is just a puppet but the reality is that she will in all probability win...what does that tell you about Thai society.
    On another note...who do you think will be more sympathic to the plight of foreigners living in Thailand ? It ain,t going to be the money grabbing Thaksin clan thats for sure!
    Just realised this is post under the wifes name but it is by Galahad
    Last edited by poo; 2nd Jul 2011 at 18:47. Reason: posted under wifes name
    S Thompson

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddwjg View Post
    caller, You did not address most of my previous questions, in the main. No problem there.

    I've one more. Do you feel Thaksin, who is still fairly rich, and does not need to enter politics again, is involved with these Thai elections via his sister, because he cares for the Thai people so much, after all he doesn't need to do so?

    What a man. To give of his time, and his money, for no reward. Just for the good of the Thai people. I'm sure if he was a christian, he would be in line for sainthood, don't you think? .

    Dave.
    Dave, I'm not an expert on any of this by any stretch of the imagination, but I have read and continue to read and research and learn. What I don't get and I seriously don't get, is that somehow Toxin is seen as the the bogeyman and the current establishment isn't? Its as much the other way around for me. Toxin was supported by the establishment initially but his power, from his supporters, all effectively disenfranchised in the past - sure they had a vote, but for what? - scared the powers that be, thats my own personal view from what I have gleaned of the history.

    Previously, whoever was in power had treated the rural poor as fodder, there were no policies geared to their needs and suddenly they were enpowered and continue to be so. I think most now accept that the 'red shirts' are in effect an unholy alliance of various factions whose main and possibly only unifying factor is to see change take place and that isn't going to happen under the Democrats.

    Unless Thailand moves to a Burma type scenario, that change is inevitable as history has taught us and the establishment would be better spending their time bringing that about rather than sitting in their ivory towers, pretending all the unrest will go away.

    Tai - I don't know if you are Thai? But to say the rural poor should go back to rely on being self-sufficient i.e. barely making a living and surviving is an astonishing comment to make, IMHO. And quite obscene considering how much wealth is in the Country. Why are the villages full of the old and poor, with the youngsters all working away, or even as labourers abroad? How can they all survive when the cost of everything is controlled and not in their favour, or ecological disasters happen because of mismanagement of the land, which isn't so productive anymore? The world is moving on and Thailand needs to move with it.

    Soory, another edit. If you lived in a village, praticising self-suffiency and last year, through no fault of your own, you were flooded out and had to go and stay with relatives elsewhere for the duration, and when you returned, everything was ruined, from mattresses to the fridge, to cooking facilities, everything in effect, not to mention your current crop and you received only 3000 baht in compensation, as my wifes family did, would you want to vote for the status quo?

  18. #38
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    Interesting read about wealth distribution and politics:

    http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009...n_30115689.php


    Nick

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian99 View Post
    But the judicial system in Thailand is a joke, even Mr T said 25% of those in Thai prisons were innocent. You are meant to be innocent until proved guilty, in practice it is the other way around. Judges are poorly trained and often got into post due to family influence and or money, much like the top millitary and Police.
    There might be some crooks in the Thai courts of laws, but it's not all a joke. There are times when they cannot be bought. At least this one time (please read the news below) that was out to the public knowledge. When it did really matter to the country's benefits.

    http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home...-30076616.html

    http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home...-30076734.html

    I hope the above links will give you another perspective about Thailand's judicial system.

    Why would Mr T say that and so accurate about the figure of the innocents thrown to jail? Any chance those 25% he referred to were the scapegoats arrested and prosecuted during his administration's "Fight Against Drugs" campaign? Not to mention many got killed during supposedly arrests. One case, it was a woman who just won a lottery, but alas the immediate fortune made her become under suspicion of being a drugs dealer. "Fight Against Drugs" squad shot her during the arrest. She didn't have a chance to enjoy her wealth that long.
    Regards,
    Tai

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by caller View Post
    Oh okay, so you're saying the current lot are less corrupt than Toxin and thats a vote winner? I don't agree with that, but each to their own.

    Toxins corruption and nepotism has been well documented, but the others? Well no, because they're still in power.
    I can't answer for everyone but for me yes. Like you said yourself in the previous post. What alternative do such folks have? And this is my solution, I'll choose the one that less corrupt. Since I was first eligible to vote, I've been voting "No" but not this time. It's just a strategic vote, not that I like or support any party in particular. In my opinion, Thailand can't afford to have another one of the Shinawatra clan in power.

    Well wasn't that the case with Thug-sin? When he was in power he was untouchable as well. And not to worry, the time will come for those who are corrupt in this current government sooner or later. If it's happened to Thug-sin, it'll happen to other politicians too.
    Regards,
    Tai

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