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  1. #1
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ
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    Default Conservative Government..Immigration challenge..

    Does any one know of any individual or group who have started court proceedings against the Financial rules brought in last year..They clearly discriminate against poor people and against British citizens in general..Why do EU citizens have more rights than us and are not subject to financial constraints..?

    I feel I want to contact the ex con in Hull who challenged the government about voting rights for prisoners..I do not agree with his views but he knew the ECHR law and was very determined in his fight..

  2. #2
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    Sorry, a little short on time but if you read through some of my old posts and those of Richard b on the subject, there was some challenge(s?) going on.

    Totally agree with your sentiments - they are discriminating. The minimum wage in this country based on a 40 hour week works out at £13,125 pa yet you have to earn £18,600 for your wife to qualify for a settlement visa. So if you're poor, stick to marrying a UK or EU girl because they clearly create less of a drain on the system. Don't even think of falling in love when your outside the EU on holiday.

    To answer your question "Why do EU citizens have more rights than us and are not subject to financial constraints..?" - because the EU immigration laws provide for this but in fairness, it also works for us should we decide to live in another EU country. The UK government cannot do anything about EU immigration rules. In reality, I doubt there are many UK citizens dashing out to work in Europe at the moment whereas there are an awful lot of EU citizens living and working here.

    EU rules on immigration are a very sticky issue - the government want to be seen to be doing something about immigration because the public always latch on to the subject during hard times. I don't for one minute believe that any government minister thinks that any of the policies they keep on banging out actually has an effect on overall immigration. They make it tougher for non EU citizens to live here and the slack in then taken up by EU citizens. There is no accurate measure of EU immigration but I'd take a guess that its actually rising - despite claims to the contrary and Bulgaria/Romania come online this year with others in the pipeline.

    Until we leave the EU (please god), there is nothing the government can do about EU immigration or EU immigration rules so for all their chest beating about 'doing something about the immigtation problem' they actually do nothing.

    If immigration is the cause of pressure on jobs, housing, health services and infrastructure, I fail to see how an EU citizen is less of a problem than a non EU. The government is simply being populist and increasingly desperate to appear to be doing something.
    Last edited by Flip; 1st Jun 2013 at 16:19.

  3. #3
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ Boydio's Avatar
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    The fact is, we are part of the EU. Surely it's not that hard to understand why different rules apply to other EU citizens?

    It's like asking why Welsh or Scottish people can come strolling in without any issues.

    The financial rules are there to protect the tax paying electorate. I'm not suggesting I agree or disagree with the rules, but to suggest there is any contravention of human rights or discrimination is just ridiculous.

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  4. #4
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Boydio, I agree that there must be no burden on the UK tax payer, the problem with having a fixed amount is that it is arbitrary. There has been a financial requirement for quite sometime where applicants have been required to demonstrate their ability to fend for themselves without recourse to public funds. There was no minimum income level, just a requirement to demonstrate they could afford to live in the UK without burdening the UK tax payer.

    The £18,600 makes no sense and could be inconsistent with Human Rights laws. A man who earns £30,000 a year with a huge mortgage and heavy debt satisfies the minimum income rule even though he has little or no disposable income. Compare that to an individual who has an income of £18,595 per year with no mortgage nor any other debt. He fails to satisfy the minimum income rule notwithstanding the fact he has far more disposable income available.

    It is this aspect that may be inconsistent with Human Rights law.
    Tobias - โทเบียส
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  5. #5
    Furniture เฟอร์นิเจอร์
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    The human right to a family life springs to mind.
    We can't kick people out of the country because of criminal activity because it will break a family up. Their income maybe less then the requirement and at the same time we don't let law abiding people come to the country to reunite a family whose income may be below the requirement.
    Surely that's discrimination.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ Boydio's Avatar
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    I believe people can challenge the rules under the family life condition, but could be wrong.

    Tobias, I couldn't agree more, but the government had to do something and, like anything, setting the figure at an absolute income level isn't ideal. One 'work around' I have seen mooted is people moving into rented accomodation and renting out their own house, which proves how stupid the fixed amount is. As I said, I'm not suggesting I agree with it, but the comparisons with EU immigration really grate on me.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydio View Post

    but the government had to do something
    Why did they have to do something? About what precisely?

    Additionally, what form of burden could there be on UK taxpayers? Working family tax credit maybe? So if the same candidate marries a British or EU national they wouldn't claim WFTC?

  8. #8
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boydio View Post
    The fact is, we are part of the EU. Surely it's not that hard to understand why different rules apply to other EU citizens?

    It's like asking why Welsh or Scottish people can come strolling in without any issues.

    The financial rules are there to protect the tax paying electorate. I'm not suggesting I agree or disagree with the rules, but to suggest there is any contravention of human rights or discrimination is just ridiculous.

    Roll on the dislikes
    The overwhelming majority of people from Wales and Scotland (and NI) are and have been for all of their adult lives part of the tax-paying electorate. People from newly-affiliated EU countries migrating to the UK with their families under EU law most definitely don't have said lifelong commitment to the UK, yet they receive favouritism over family members born outside the EU of lifelong UK citizens! That's just plain wrong.

    I'm fully aware of the fact that this is a British issue, and not an EU one as the law exists, and the issue seemed to be ramped up significantly under Brown's tenure by Harriett Harman as part of her crusade against arranged marriages.

  9. #9
    Premium Member ash's Avatar
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    Bear in mind we pay taxes to the EU as do all EU citizens the UK in theory benefits from being an EU member vi grants etc therefore EU citizens have contributed in some way hence the favorable treatment.

    Also leaving the EU would not necessarily mean leaving the treaty for free movement and if it did we could end up needing visas (not free) to holiday in Europe. Might need a visa to visit ad independent Scotland as well.
    Human beings are seventy percent water, and with some the rest is collagen

  10. #10
    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ Linne's Avatar
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    I hope nobody is naïve enough to believe that being out of the EU will rid us of the influence of the EU. I remember speaking to a Norwegian gent not so long ago and joked that Norway is always the first to comply with EU directives.
    In the words of an old well known conservative politician " you cannot swing a handbag from an empty chair"

    In the rush to kick out Johnny Foreigner just make sure all those brits working abroad do not end up back here.

    I hate to say this but can we cherry pick those foreigners you want over here um...........maybe we do ???

    Personally I think the US system of prioritising immigrants has a few merits as I understand it, immigrants getting married go to the top of the pile.

  11. #11
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    Trouble is you argue about immigration and you're automatically branded a "racist".

    There is big difference between "mass im/migration" and "managed migration".

    This country should be trying to attract the brightest and the best...not 2m from the outer reaches of the EU to wash cars, pull pints, dig roads and serve coffees.

    Nick

  12. #12
    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ Linne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prioritypress View Post
    This country should be trying to attract the brightest and the best...not 2m from the outer reaches of the EU to wash cars, pull pints, dig roads and serve coffees.

    Nick
    Trouble is that if you talk to some of them you find that they are often qualified to do a lot more

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by prioritypress View Post

    This country should be trying to attract the brightest and the best...not 2m from the outer reaches of the EU to wash cars, pull pints, dig roads and serve coffees.

    Nick
    Possibly Nick but relating the matter to what, I suspect, concerns most of us here, should there be some form of concession when its a spouse that's concerned? I think so.

    It is surely possible to have different rules for economic migrants compared to spouses. Of course there could be abuse in the form of sham marriages but isn't that what the 5 year route to a residence permit is designed to prevent?

  14. #14
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ nigel&panada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prioritypress View Post
    Trouble is you argue about immigration and you're automatically branded a "racist".
    Yes but dont you just love it when you can whip out the phone / wallet and say " have you met the wife , as you clearly know nothing about either immigration or racism"

  15. #15
    Veteran ผู้มีประสบการณ์ prikphet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prioritypress View Post

    This country should be trying to attract the brightest and the best...not 2m from the outer reaches of the EU to wash cars, pull pints, dig roads and serve coffees.

    Nick
    Your lucky they work round your neck of the woods - they just seem to mooch up and down the high streets round here, talking loudly and generally being a pain in the arse - we got loads of Brits doing that already so its not like there was a vacancy or anything

  16. #16
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    After our pathetic refusal for a settlement visa the Eastern Europeans are welcome here.......my home and business are up for sale.......I am not alone when I say uk is finished. I will relocate to thailand and pay no more taxes here. Good luck everybody..chock dee!

  17. #17
    R.I.P. colin244's Avatar
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    A few years until I can do the same mbsk and good luck in what you do

    colin 244

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbsk View Post
    After our pathetic refusal for a settlement visa the Eastern Europeans are welcome here.......my home and business are up for sale.......I am not alone when I say uk is finished. I will relocate to thailand and pay no more taxes here. Good luck everybody..chock dee!
    Would like to know the details?


    Nick

  19. #19
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    I think it's unbelievable that we have to jump through all these hoops in a country I have paid tax for 30 years when a non English person can walk straight in with their Thai wife of 5 minutes......even if they have just been released from jail with no job.
    I feel sorry for all of us who are battling to be together with our wives / families and having to put up with being treated like an outsider and dictated to in our own country. All of the thailand forums I have found are full of uk citizens trying to be together with their spouses and being refused for reasons after spending a fortune on brittish policy ... It saddens me immensely .
    Does it pay to be honest...No
    Am I bitter ...Yes.... 100%
    Am I sad ..... Not a chance ... Look forward to a new life in the sun
    Last edited by Tobias; 6th Jun 2013 at 14:18. Reason: Language filter violation.

  20. #20
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbsk View Post
    I think it's unbelievable that we have to jump through all these hoops in a country I have paid tax for 30 years when a non English person can walk straight in with their Thai wife of 5 minutes...
    You do realise this statement is incorrect?
    Tobias - โทเบียส
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