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  1. #1
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    Default Filling in Appendix 2 of VAF4A Using a 'PDF Filler'.

    Hi all.

    My handwriting is grim, so i have downloaded the probably well-known 'PDF Filler' program which already has all the relevant forms loaded in its database. It is a brilliant editor and prints out perfectly.

    Has anyone heard of the ECOs objecting to Appendix 2 of VAF4A NOT being filled in by hand ?

    To me that would be ridiculous since it's not a test of anyone's handwriting, but who knows....

    http://www.pdffiller.com/

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Premium Member Tom & Nok's Avatar
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    My handwriting is pretty grim too !

    There is no issue with submitting forms that are filled in electronically rather than by hand. "PDF filler" is fine and I've used similar software.

    All that you need to do is to answer the questions which are asked and use a font which is either blue or black ("You may use blue or black ink.").

  3. #3
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    Thanks Tom - good to hear. My handwriting is on the blink compared to its long-lost version pre-computer keyboard! Yes, i like the PDF filler a lot - it makes it so much easier to get the information required into the inadequate boxes on the form, by playing with the font size. Black it is - serious stuff.

  4. #4

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    I did back in February. The boxes are too small if you can’t write small.

    I had a PCP with BMW and they rejected my form because I typed the date in and I had to redo it. I now apply the same to anything I have to give a signature and date. I sign and date with a pen.

  5. #5
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    My god....how i (don't) love bureaucrats ! Good tip rasg - so do you mean that it's ok to fill in the bulk of the form using an electronic filler, but the signature and date must be done manually ? I guess the signature is obvious-ish, but the Date would have caught me out !

    - - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

    Just read through Appendix 2 fairly swiftly - i can't see any box asking for a signature - that can't be right can it ? Can't imagine submitting such a crucial form without a statement that it's all true, signed ?

  6. #6
    Premium Member Tom & Nok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingerSongwriter View Post
    Just read through Appendix 2 fairly swiftly - i can't see any box asking for a signature - that can't be right can it ? Can't imagine submitting such a crucial form without a statement that it's all true, signed ?
    Just to reassure you, there is no signature or date required for the VAF4A Appendix 2 which is why there are no boxes for them. However, as you know, you also have to complete form VAF4A (I call this the "master" form) and that form does require the applicant's signature as well as the date after it is completed and printed it off - see "Part 11 Declaration".

  7. #7
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    Thanks Tom - i suppose they are treated as a pair with the one signature on VAF4A.

    I would definitely recommend doing the settlement application from here in LoS. Others might disagree and a lot depends on personal details such as the means used to meet the financial requirement. But i have spent HOURS on the phone trying to cajole banks into sending up-to-date statements from the UK. The other day a pile of paper arrived from Barclays and on close inspection the so-called 'SIX Months' statements actually covered 5.5 Months. Aaarrgghh.. Initially also there was a problem with Barclays refusing to use anything but normal Air Mail to send, but after some of my loudest complaining i got them to use a tracked express service. Another typical problem - trying to arrange a 'Property Inspection' with the local council's housing department - pot luck whether you get a helpful informed person or a right plank who couldn't give a xxxx. Nope, if there's a a choice i'd say get all the docs together in the UK before launching this type of application. Apart from anything else, if the ECO applies the '28-day' rule strictly, it is very tight to get all documents from Blighty that will be under 28 days old at the time the submission and payment is made - relying on the international post system is bad for one's nerves ! Example : bank statements only print out in the bank up to the end of the last Monthly Statement - the ones i just received stopped on May 20th. Making up the gap with online print-outs is the only remedy for this. Lastly, i'm trying to co-ordinate documents from 5 financial institutions, one local council, and the friend offering accommodation. Getting them all in line date-wise is a pain in the xss.

    N'er mind eh!

  8. #8

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    I would definitely recommend doing the settlement application from here in LoS.

    Do you mean from the UK?

    The next visa for us will be FLR. Fortunately that can be done in the UK. The Settlement Visa back in February was done with me in the UK and the GF in LOS. She took most of it with her and when she arrived back in Thailand the only thing prior to VFS was the TB certificate and a couple of last minute changes.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ Peejay1959's Avatar
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    Property inspection??? Is this something new? I've been offline for a few weeks as Tia got here on the 21st of May

    Pete and Tia

  10. #10
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    HAHA - oh sh-t i am getting irrational now...i missed out the word NOT - i would NOT recommend doing the settlement visa from here in LoS !!! Thanks for picking that up ! Hopefully the FLR will be plain sailing :-)

    - - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

    - - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

    Hi Peejay1959 - Property inspection - it is a swift look around the accommodation in the UK that a couple will drop into exhausted at the end of the whole settlement process. Where it is based on an Offer of a Room in a friend or relative's house, some people have been refused for not having enough hard detail about the accommodation. It has become a total cat-and-mouse game, trying to second-guess what any ECO will be expecting to see. Now some people are even including signed Tenancy Agreements just to make it look secure. Oh and Floorplans of the whole house to go with all the photos of every room etc. The Property Inspection is done by the 'Housing Standards' dept of the local council/borough. It costs £100. I can't confirm if i have managed to set one up yet for the UK house from LoS, because i won't know until Monday if they've accepted all the scanned docs i had to send about ownership etc. It is specifically designed for Immigration and is meant to avoid Overcrowding - a favourite theme with the UKBA. If you ever want more details about it i'll try to be useful. Really, it comes in the category "Applicant bending over backwards while singing the national anthem eating a bacon sarny" approach - that's me!

  11. #11
    Premium Member ash's Avatar
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    Really, it comes in the category "Applicant bending over backwards while singing the national anthem eating a bacon sarny" approach - that's me!
    That's cool but giving them far more than they need also potentially increases the burden on later applicants , we simply wrote a letter/note stating we would be buying a house and it would have 3 bedrooms etc. Before anyone chimes in that things have changed re accommodation which they have I am simply pointing out that unless the application is full of holes a simple description should suffice spend the 100 pounds on a rice cooker.
    Human beings are seventy percent water, and with some the rest is collagen

  12. #12
    Premium Member Tom & Nok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ash View Post
    Before anyone chimes in that things have changed re accommodation which they have I am simply pointing out that unless the application is full of holes a simple description should suffice spend the 100 pounds on a rice cooker.
    Allow me to chime in as I think that it is wise to follow the current guidance rather than to rely upon an anecdote relating to a settlement application from many years ago.

    The regulations have indeed changed and hard verifiable evidence is required by ECOs.

    It would be very risky and costly to ignore the current regulations and instead take the path of "...we simply wrote a letter/note stating we would be buying a house..." and follow a suggestion that, "...a simple description should suffice."

    The current guidance is set out in Appendix FM1.7A Adequate Maintenance and Accommodation (August 2015). Refer to Section 8 (pp19-22).

    Last edited by Tom & Nok; 18th Jun 2016 at 11:43.

  13. #13
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    The burden was placed on us all a long time ago. I have seen actual refusals on the grounds of inadequate proof of suitable accommodation. I don't make these things up to honest !

  14. #14
    Premium Member ash's Avatar
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    Tom
    Nothing in the link you supplied requires anything more than a simple description indeed they will even accept prospective accommodation in certain circumstances. There is no reason to provide additional documentation not specified in the guidance.

    In fact they specifically imply that a description will suffice and the emphasis is on the basis that the accommodation will be available. Our settlement was actually 4 years ago not in the 1950's and even then certain members of this forum were insisting certain things needed to be supplied which was not the case. My point is that supply what is required and unless the whole application has flaws things will be fine, contrary to the implication by the OP ECOs are not generally looking to fail applications on minor points if the application does not fail the tests generally it will succeed. sorry should have said 'if the application meets the immigration rules it will succeed.'

    - - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SingerSongwriter View Post
    The burden was placed on us all a long time ago. I have seen actual refusals on the grounds of inadequate proof of suitable accommodation. I don't make these things up to honest !
    Not suggesting you made it up ? but I doubt that was the whole reason for refusal
    Last edited by ash; 18th Jun 2016 at 12:15.
    Human beings are seventy percent water, and with some the rest is collagen

  15. #15
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    I think your statement that they will accept 'Prospective Accommodation' is actually dangerous. The fact that your settlement was 4 years ago is crucial. Really, that is ancient history in this context. Not following this thread anymore - too busy filling in the application with unnecessary detail ! But i do agree with your - "doubt that was the whole reason for refusal" - quite. We only see what people select to show. Thanks for the input.

  16. #16
    Premium Member Tom & Nok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ash View Post
    Nothing in the link you supplied requires anything more than a simple description indeed they will even accept prospective accommodation in certain circumstances. There is no reason to provide additional documentation not specified in the guidance.
    Not so.

    Read the guidance carefully. Look at Section 8.1 Yes, prospective accommodation can be considered but only if the couple have not yet married or entered into a civil partnership.

    The OP is married.

    So, as 8.1 states, "An application made after the marriage or civil partnership has taken place should not rely on prospective accomodation".

    8.2 states that the applicant must supply evidence as to the basis on which the property is owned or occupied. The regulations then list various documents which can be accepted as evidence such as title deeds, mortgage or tenancy papers and so on.

    You are quite right to say the OP should supply what is required. However your suggestion that a simple description will suffice will not cut the mustard with the ECO.

  17. #17
    Premium Member ash's Avatar
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    The guidance notes list not the regulations ?

    A simple description of the property will suffice in most cases to prove adequacy i.e number of rooms etc is in 99.9% going to be fine. Floor plans ,photos etc prove nothing
    Human beings are seventy percent water, and with some the rest is collagen

  18. #18
    Premium Member Tom & Nok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingerSongwriter View Post
    I think your statement that they will accept 'Prospective Accommodation' is actually dangerous. The fact that your settlement was 4 years ago is crucial. Really, that is ancient history in this context. Not following this thread anymore - too busy filling in the application with unnecessary detail ! But i do agree with your - "doubt that was the whole reason for refusal" - quite. We only see what people select to show. Thanks for the input.
    I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments.

    The best of luck with your application and keep us informed

  19. #19
    Old Hand มือเก่า BigRed's Avatar
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    I tend to agree with Ash. Refusals are based on the gut feel of the application, the reasons given are are the get out clauses. If their gut feel is to reject, they will always find a reason and it won't be the real reason. The best option is to address the fuzzy reasons, such as length of contact etc.

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