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Thread: FLR bear traps

  1. #1

    Default FLR bear traps

    HI.

    Just completing the last of the FLR M visa application for my wife.

    For those who have been through it, is there anything that I need to bear in mind or remember that isn’t obvious please?

    NHS surcharge is paid. We have her son's original birth certificate and a certified English translation although he isn’t joining us in the UK. Language test - done with the SELT number. No TB test needed for this one.

    It says specifically that online bank statements are not acceptable but that is all I have. For her Settlement visa I got the bank to stamp and date them.

    My (now) wife came to the UK in March on her Settlement (6 month Fiancée visa) and we married at the end of June. We have council tax documents with both of our names on. A letter with joint names on from the doctor and the dentist. A letter addressed to my wife with her language test certificate going back to February. That is pretty much it. Trying to open a bank account has been nothing but a problem. She is on my mobile phone account but Vodaphone won't address anything to her or to both of us.

    Quite worried about this bit to be honest but it says on the requirements that the period fr time is over two years. We obviously can’t do that as she has only been here for five months.

    Any ideas or constructive criticism welcome.

  2. #2
    Premium Member Tom & Nok's Avatar
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    Hi rasg

    Regarding online bank statements, these are perfectly acceptable if each page is stamped by the issuing bank or building society - see IDI Appendix FM-SE (Specified Evidence) here which is referred to in IDI Appendix FM1.7:

    "1. In relation to evidencing the financial requirements in Appendix FM the following general provisions shall apply:
    1. (a) Bank statements must:
      1. (i) be from a financial institution regulated by the appropriate regulatory body for the country in which that institution is operating.
      2. (ii) not be from a financial institution on the list of excluded institutions in Appendix P of these rules.
      3. (iii) in relation to personal bank statements be only in the name of:
        1. (1) the applicant’s partner, the applicant or both as appropriate; or
        2. (2) if the applicant is a child the applicant parent’s partner, the applicant’s parent or both as appropriate; or
        3. (3) if the applicant is an adult dependent relative, the applicant’s sponsor or the applicant, unless otherwise stated.

      4. (iv) cover the period(s) specified.
      5. (v) be:
        1. (1) on official bank stationery; or
        2. (2) electronic bank statements which are either accompanied by a letter from the bank on its headed stationery confirming that the documents are authentic or which bear the official stamp of the issuing bank on every page. " [my emphasis]




    It's worthwhile for your wife to apply for a national insurance number from the Department for Work & Pensions (DWP) - this is very straightforward and the official letter with her NI number will be another useful piece of correspondence evidence.

    I'm surprised about the difficulties opening a bank account for your wife. Maybe we struck lucky last May but my Nationwide branch in north London opened a full FlexAccount current account for Nok with a Visa debit/ATM card on the spot with no problems - we used our council tax bill in joint names and her Thai passport. The Nationwide staff member who handled this was very friendly and very helpful.

    The time frame referred to in the FLR(M) application form (see pages 63 and 64) is up to a maximum of two years:

    "Six items of correspondence addressed to you and your partner at the same address as evidence that you have been living together since your last grant of leave in this category, or from the date you first started living together up to a maximum of two years".


    Your now wife came to join you in the UK on a fiancee visa for the purpose of marrying you and so it is quite acceptable that the evidence of your cohabitation is limited to the five months that you've been together in the UK. Just provide an explanation as indicated in Note 11 on page 64.

    Hope this helps.

    Tom



  3. #3
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    National insurance number took about 4 weeks for my wife.
    And nok my wife got a bank account opened with just our council tax bill and her passport.
    She got a debit card straight away

    Be doing the FLR application in the future
    Nok my wife only been here just over 2 months on her settlement visa.
    I wish you very best of luck with your application rasq

  4. #4

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    Tom. I would love to know how you find this kind of info and I Google for half an hour and come up with nothing that tells me what I need to know.

    That link you sent me doesn't seem to have pages though and certainly no note 11 but there is other info there.

    Just realised that page 64 is on the FLR form! Sorry and thanks.
    Last edited by rasg; 5th Sep 2016 at 22:56.

  5. #5
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasg View Post
    My (now) wife came to the UK in March on her Settlement (6 month Fiancée visa) and we married at the end of June.
    Too late now, but why the delay in applying for the FLR if you married in June?

    To be honest if it were me, and I advise EVERYONE to do this, I would have had the form downloaded and filled in not long after she got here so I could see what was required and then you could have posted this of as soon as married (shortening the time to the next FLR).

    Anyway, as I said too late now but just my curiosity getting the better of me.

    Nationwide let Nok get a joint account with me but would not let her have her own. Same with Santander.

    For future items, because you will need all this again, you could change things like Gas, Electric, Phone etc. to her name.
    Bear in mind though that if you need to speak to these companies they will only deal with the named person, or at least talk to her first and get her to say it is OK for you to deal with things. I mostly do internet stuff so not really a problem.

    Once you have this form done, download it again and fill it in or better yet copy what you have and start getting ready now the next application in 30 months time.
    Last edited by Gary & Nok; 6th Sep 2016 at 16:04.
    I'm ONE of the 52%

  6. #6

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    Too late now, but why the delay in applying for the FLR if you married in June?

    We married at the end of June. Away for a week, then playing catch up with work, two weeks honeymoon etc etc. Then more catch up with work.

    To be honest if it were me, and I advise EVERYONE to do this, I would have had the form downloaded and filled in not long after she got here so I could see what was required and then you could have posted this of as soon as married (shortening the time to the next FLR).

    I did download and complete a lot of it weeks and weeks ago. Just dotting the I's and crossing the T's and making sure we have everything. The wifes son's birth certificate took the longest.

    Anyway, as I said too late now but just my curiosity getting the better of me.

    Nationwide let Nok get a joint account with me but would not let her have her own. Same with Santander.

    They will do the same for us and it's now underway. One bank, Lloyds, if I remember said she would need her BRP before they would give her an account. Probably got my maths wrong on dates but I knew it needed it to be in by 8th September.

  7. #7
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasg View Post
    The wifes son's birth certificate took the longest.
    Oh yes, I remember this now.

    Anyway, good luck with the application.
    I'm ONE of the 52%

  8. #8
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    Hi Guys

    I appologise in advance if this post is in the wrong place. I have a question regarding the FLR(M) visa application process and wondered if anyone could help.

    Immigration Rules Appendix FM-SE: family members specified evidence JULY 2016 states. (j) Where any specified documents provided are not in English or Welsh, the applicant must provide the original and a full translation that can be independently verified by the Entry Clearance Officer, Immigration Officer or the Secretary of State.

    The translation must be dated and include:

    (i) confirmation that it is an accurate translation of the original document;

    (ii) the full name and original signature of the translator or an authorised official of the translation company;

    (iii) the translator or translation company’s contact details; and

    (iv) if the applicant is applying for leave to remain or indefinite leave to remain, certification by a qualified translator and details of the translator or translation company’s credentials.

    It's the last statement that I'm struggling with.I have looked back and cannot see if this particular requirement was in place when we originally submitted our documents 30 months ago. Has anyone had their original documents recently certified for FLR(M), or I am completely overthinking this and the fact that they were accepted for a successful application of the spouse visa be enough?

    Any advice would be gratefully accepted.




  9. #9

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    Any translation I have ever had done has the signature and a stamp of the translation company at the bottom of the page.

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    Thanks rasg

    I am beginning to think I'm reading too much into this. The documents that we had done for the spouse visa were translated by a reputable legal advice company and have the stamp and company details at the bottom of the page too. The marriage certificate was translated at the ministry of foreign affairs in Bangkok and certified there also.

    I think that this must be enough, as they were perfectly acceptable before. It's just the certification by a qualified translator that I'm not 100% sure about.

  11. #11

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    It doesn't sound as if you have anything to worry about as long as you used a reputable company.

  12. #12
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasg View Post
    It doesn't sound as if you have anything to worry about as long as you used a reputable company.
    and also if they were accepted previously
    I'm ONE of the 52%

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    Default Last Minute FLR Questions

    Hi again

    I have a few more questions I'm afraid. My wifes spouse visa expires on the 28th of November 2016 and for a variety of reasons we still not have submitted the application. My wife passed her B1 with Trinity college London last week, so now we're sorted for this application and the ILR in 2 and half years time.

    I am in receipt of carers allowance therefore I am exempt from the financial requirement, but I must show what they call "adequate maintenance." I have over the £62, 500.00 in savings to cover this and I also work part time for a charity as a volunteer and receive around £150.00 per month in expenses. My wife also works part time and receives a salary. Could anyone advise me how I can include these as income sources on the form or should I just explain the situation on page 39 of the document?

    The documentary evidence for the provision of adequate maintenance regarding accommodation seems to be unclear.
    I am providing a letter from my mother confirming that we have been living in their house since April 2014. It also states that the mortgage is settled and there is sufficient space for all of us. I am providing a copy of the deeds and a letter confirming the settlement of the mortgage. I cant work out if I need to provide details of the council tax payable. Is this necessary and/or should I be providing anything else to satisfy the adequate maintenance requirements regarding accommodation?

    My wife was divorced from her Japanese husband in 2006, unfortunately we no longer have the original divorce certificate. We have no idea how this was lost, as we have every other document from our spouse visa application. We do have a photocopy of the original certificate and a photocopy of the translation which was stamped and certified at the ministry of foreign affairs. We also have the original copy of the stamped registration of family status document from the Amphur (An original is never provided as each divorce is recorded on an individual page in a large book) we also have a certified translation of this document which we used for the spouse visa. We have tried to obtain a copy of the original certificate but have been told by the Japanese embassy that this is not possible unless my wife can contact her ex husband and get a signed letter granting permission for the issue of a copy. As they have had no contact since 2005, we have no idea of his whereabouts and dont even know if he is still alive, this will be impossible. There is so much conflicting information regarding missing original documents that I am concerned about how to manage this. Does anyone have any experience of this or know if a letter of explanation would be acceptable?

    Lastly, there seems to be a degree of confusion regarding question 10.14 Please state what ties you have with:
    • The country where you were born.
    • Any other country whose nationality you hold.
    • Any country where you have lived for more than five years.

    Some people have advised just writing immediate family and friends, others have said list all family members. Does anyone know which is best here. The reason I ask is that in one of my previous posts I asked about Section 4 - Dependent children, question 4.2 asks: Do you have any children whose parent is not your sponsor? yes or no. The true answer is yes as the question does not include the word 'dependent'. I answered no, as my step son is 22, married with a child and has no intention of coming to live in the uk. Therefore, if I list him as a family member would I not be opening a can of worms and making even more problems for myself?

    I am sorry that this post is so long, but I don't know how else to address these issues unless I make a series of additional posts for each question.

    Please, If anyone can help at all I would be extremely grateful.

    Many thanks.

  14. #14
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    In answer to your question on Section 4 I would also say No. He is/was your wife's step son but she is no longer married to the father of that person and (although no legal expert) I would say (only my opinion) if she did not legally adopt him then he is now nothing to do with her.

    As for the rest I shall leave that to someone else as I don't have an answer for you I'm afraid.
    I'm ONE of the 52%

  15. #15

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    CCity rocker, it may be worth clarifying the step son situation; From what you have posted, I interpret that you are applying on your wife's behalf, so the step son in question is your wife's son, your step son. If this is correct, then there is provision in table 4.4 and q. 4.5 to explain that the step son is not dependent. The general advice throughout this forum is to be completely honest on applications as should mis information come to light at a later date, it could have serious consequences.
    However, if Gary and Nok have interpreted correctly, and it is your wife's step son from a previous relationship, then I'd agree completely with what he's said.

  16. #16

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    I am in receipt of carers allowance therefore I am exempt from the financial requirement, but I must show what they call "adequate maintenance." I have over the £62, 500.00 in savings to cover this and I also work part time for a charity as a volunteer and receive around £150.00 per month in expenses. My wife also works part time and receives a salary. Could anyone advise me how I can include these as income sources on the form or should I just explain the situation on page 39 of the document?

    Why do you need to add info about your charity work or your wife's salary as you are relying on savings that are sufficient for the requirements of FLR?

    The documentary evidence for the provision of adequate maintenance regarding accommodation seems to be unclear.
    I am providing a letter from my mother confirming that we have been living in their house since April 2014. It also states that the mortgage is settled and there is sufficient space for all of us. I am providing a copy of the deeds and a letter confirming the settlement of the mortgage. I cant work out if I need to provide details of the council tax payable. Is this necessary and/or should I be providing anything else to satisfy the adequate maintenance requirements regarding accommodation?

    A council tax bill with the individual names on it is very useful for proving you have been living together for a while. When my then fiancée arrived in March on the Settlement visa, the first thing I did was put her on the Council Tax. Even better if you have two or three bills going back to 2014 with your wife's name on. All I supplied was a mortgage statement and a photo of the house.

    My wife was divorced from her Japanese husband in 2006, unfortunately we no longer have the original divorce certificate. We have no idea how this was lost, as we have every other document from our spouse visa application. We do have a photocopy of the original certificate and a photocopy of the translation which was stamped and certified at the ministry of foreign affairs. We also have the original copy of the stamped registration of family status document from the Amphur (An original is never provided as each divorce is recorded on an individual page in a large book) we also have a certified translation of this document which we used for the spouse visa. We have tried to obtain a copy of the original certificate but have been told by the Japanese embassy that this is not possible unless my wife can contact her ex husband and get a signed letter granting permission for the issue of a copy. As they have had no contact since 2005, we have no idea of his whereabouts and dont even know if he is still alive, this will be impossible. There is so much conflicting information regarding missing original documents that I am concerned about how to manage this. Does anyone have any experience of this or know if a letter of explanation would be acceptable?

    If you only have photocopies and you are unable to get the originals you need to explain why in your letter. You can call and enquire to confirm, and, for once they do accept calls and they don't cost an arm and a leg. You might have to wait in the queue though.

    Home Office numbers
    0300 123 2253
    0300 123 2241


    Lastly, there seems to be a degree of confusion regarding question 10.14 Please state what ties you have with:
    • The country where you were born.
    • Any other country whose nationality you hold.
    • Any country where you have lived for more than five years.

    Some people have advised just writing immediate family and friends, others have said list all family members. Does anyone know which is best here. The reason I ask is that in one of my previous posts I asked about Section 4 - Dependent children, question 4.2 asks: Do you have any children whose parent is not your sponsor? yes or no. The true answer is yes as the question does not include the word 'dependent'. I answered no, as my step son is 22, married with a child and has no intention of coming to live in the uk. Therefore, if I list him as a family member would I not be opening a can of worms and making even more problems for myself?


    This is what I put:
    A 13 year old son, my father, 3 sisters, 2 brothers.

    Not sure about the stepson question. My inclination is not to list him. We had to supply my wife's son's original birth certificate even though he wasn't coming to the UK. It was an absolute pain, took almost two months and the extra cost of a translation.



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    Thanks for all of your replies, I will try and clarify a few points.

    I am the person completing the form on my wifes behalf and I am referring to my wifes son who is now my stepson by marriage. He is nearly 23 and is totally independent. The heading of section 4 is dependent children and I have dealt with it as relating to dependent children only. I understand the point made by Marvinpie, but as there is no definition of what a dependent child actually is in relation to this this question then I can't see how I am mis-informing. The rest of section 4.4 from question L to R is all non applicable and I can't understand how it can possibly relate to a non dependent child. This section is a major worry for me.

    Rasg, thanks for clearing this part up, I see now that I dont need to add the info about the charity work or my wife's salary, but I cant see exactly where on the form I should enter the savings which are sufficient for the requirements of FLR?

    I will call the home office on Monday and explain the divorce certificate issue. Thanks for the numbers, I know I had them bookmarked once but I am drowning under the weight of this thing now.

    I've only got the latest council tax bill with my mothers name on it. We have got the required number of separate documents in our names from the approved sources but nothing in our joint names as we are living at my mum's and I am the primary carer for my dad. I just thought if I included it along with the other documents relating to accommodation it would be further proof.


    Thanks for all of your help again, it is genuinely appreciated. I just wish this wasn't such a nightmare process.

  18. #18

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    I am not familiar with the financial requirements regarding the Carer's Allowance etc but I did have a quick look and it does look confusing. Just to confirm that you are completing the correct version of the form? FLR(M) Version 04/2016.

    You need to complete the 7B - Maintenance page. Page 39 of 76 looks to be the place to add the extra info about your savings although it seems to mention page 40.

    I don't think it would do any harm if you completed 7.3E Cash Savings (Page 34 of 76) and simply refer to what you have done on Page 39 of 76 or put it in both.

    I've only got the latest council tax bill with my mothers name on it.

    Give your council a call and see if they can supply you with a letter with the people named in the house on it. It was a little different as I was living on my own with a discount on my council tax and when I added my wife they sent me a letter confirming it and my bill went up, or course... We didn’t have anything like the number of letters that we needed but we only had the duration of a six month fiancée visa so the council tax stuff was important.

    I also relied on a letter from a new doctor addressed to both of us and a joint appointment at the dentist.

  19. #19
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    Guys

    I thought it would be good to provide an update on section 4 - Dependent Children, as it may be very useful for others in this situation. I have just got off the phone to the home office and I can confirm that a child in this case is a person under the age of 18. Anyone under the age of 18 needs to be included on the form whether they are applying or not and the relevant documents (birth certificate plus translation) have to be included.

    Non-dependent adult children do not have to be included. I was advised not to tick YES or NO on question 4.2 as the child in our particular case is 22, non-dependent and not coming to the UK.

    I hope this clarifies things. It would be so much easier if a paragraph explaining this was added to the notes at the beginning of section 4, as this part is really badly worded and the exact information required is unclear.

    Lastly, I was advised just to enter 'Immediate family and friends' on question 10.14 Please state what ties you have with:

    • The country where you were born.
    • Any other country whose nationality you hold.
    • Any country where you have lived for more than five years.

    I was told that there was no need to enter names, ages or relationship details.

  20. #20
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update to this.
    However:
    Quote Originally Posted by CCity Rocker View Post
    I was advised not to tick YES or NO on question 4.2 as the child in our particular case is 22, non-dependent and not coming to the UK.
    Are you certain that they said NOT to tick EITHER Yes or No???

    This is a Yes or No question and a response is required. If neither is ticked surely this leaves the form open to not being completed with the possibility of a rejection.
    I'm ONE of the 52%

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