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  1. #21
    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ Flip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren View Post
    So do I put in a visit visa saying she just wants a holiday again or do I go all in and explain we have started the settlement process
    I think honesty is the best way here. Don't try to pull the wool over their eyes - state that your girlfriend (maybe wife) is working towards the requirements for a settlement visa but it has become clear that this will take some time, you wish to see each other during that time and that - very much as an aside, she will find it much easier to raise the standard of her English when she's in England, having to speak English and without the distractions of work/family at home. A visit visa is by no means cheap but its not that expensive and worth a try. In no way will a failed visit application go against a future settlement visa application.

    I don't thinks its all doom and gloom - the fact that she returned last time will go in her favour - it all depends on how you deal with why she stayed longer than stated. I would say her chances are actually higher than they would be had she not had a previous visa but it will all depend on what is stated on the application.

    At the end of the day, the ECO's only concern SHOULD be, that she will return at the end of her visa.

  2. #22
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    Yes the TB test will expire, but simple to retake it.

    We obviously considered just retaking the IELTS but she sat the first test after spending a month together in Thailand practicing every day. We ran the mock tests together over and over and I gave her tips on using the correct pronunciation. If she goes alone to Bangkok now after being on the farm for a month and a 5 hour bus journey alone she is likely to just fail again.

    We can't really move forward without a passed English test and a long stay here practicing together, speaking English every day makes a pass more likely. Add into that she will be sitting the SELTS alone (not with a woman who already has 4 fails). The visit visa may well be refused but it is not the end of the World and I still think it is our best option right now.

    - - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Flip View Post
    I think honesty is the best way here. Don't try to pull the wool over their eyes - state that your girlfriend (maybe wife) is working towards the requirements for a settlement visa but it has become clear that this will take some time, you wish to see each other during that time and that - very much as an aside, she will find it much easier to raise the standard of her English when she's in England, having to speak English and without the distractions of work/family at home. A visit visa is by no means cheap but its not that expensive and worth a try. In no way will a failed visit application go against a future settlement visa application.

    I don't thinks its all doom and gloom - the fact that she returned last time will go in her favour - it all depends on how you deal with why she stayed longer than stated. I would say her chances are actually higher than they would be had she not had a previous visa but it will all depend on what is stated on the application.

    At the end of the day, the ECO's only concern SHOULD be, that she will return at the end of her visa.
    Exactly my feelings, a well worded supporting letter (as I have found in the past) gives the application a fairly good chance of success. Our only real aim is to get Ket through this last hurdle of the English test and get on with the settlement.

    - - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

    Thank's for all the advice, I'm pretty much decided we will go for another visit visa and the application will be supported with this letter:

    I first spoke to Ket online in March 2016. I was in Thailand at the time and we met, went on a few dates together and really enjoyed each others company. We spent much of the first month together at the condo I was renting.


    I returned again in July 2016 for a further month and we decided we would like to have a more permanent relationship together. I have since spent five more one month trips in Thailand (November 2016, March 2017, June 2017, March 2018 & July 2018) and we have travelled to Chiang Mai, Thaton, Chiang Dao, Khao Lak, Koh Kood, Trat, Phuket and Bangkok together.


    In July 2017 Ket applied for a visit visa to come to the UK but it was refused on reason to return. we reapplied addressing the concerns of the ECO and a visit visa was granted in September 2017. Ket flew to England on October 1st 2017 and returned with me on March 22nd 2018.


    When we applied for Ket’s first visa we planned on her only staying in the UK for one month. Ket had never left Thailand, never left her Mother to work alone and never experienced an English winter. I was concerned that Ket would not enjoy the Winter weather and her family may struggle without her help. Ket really enjoyed her time in the UK, her Mother was coping fine without her and so Ket stayed longer than our initial plans. Nevertheless we were very careful that she did not break any of the conditions of the visit visa as we knew it could jeopardise future applications.


    Ket lives at home with her mother, her brother and his wife and their two children. She also has an older sister and a twin brother who don't live in the family home. Ket is very committed to her family and loves them very much. Her father died when she was 14 and her mother's health is not the best. Ket finished school early to help out. She has had a couple of jobs over the years Working in a spa and at one point worked away from home in Bangkok in a restaurant. Now Ket helps her Mother and Brother on the rubber plantation and she also helps taking care of the children.


    Before we met, her brother and sister-in-law were the main bread winners for the household like so many families in Thailand. I decided to help support her and I have been sending her money to help. I send her regular payments by international money transfer directly into her bank. (£200/month, or when required which makes up her regular income from other sources in the application)


    I have attached joint flight bookings, copies of money transfers to Ket's bank account and photos of us together in many places in Thailand.


    As I have stated in our previous visit visa applications our long term plan is to marry and apply for settlement in the UK. The settlement process will take some time and we are not ready to start yet. This holiday will give Ket and I more time to be together and another opportunity to meet my family. She will also have time to practice and improve her English and at the end of the holiday Ket and I will fly back to Thailand together.


    Thank you for considering this application.

  3. #23
    Premium Member Elad's Avatar
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    Hi Darren
    This might sound like bad advice but, if your girlfriend is granted the visit visa then you could kill two birds with one stone whilst she's here, 1) passing the English test and 2) get married at the local registry office.

    there's nothing to stop you getting married on a visit visa and it wont affect your application for settlement when she returns to Thailand. If anything it will speed things up and save you a lot of money.

    I am not saying this is the correct way, but its the way we did it and nothing was mentioned by the ECO for us marrying on a V V.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elad View Post
    Hi Darren
    This might sound like bad advice but, if your girlfriend is granted the visit visa then you could kill two birds with one stone whilst she's here, 1) passing the English test and 2) get married at the local registry office.

    there's nothing to stop you getting married on a visit visa and it wont affect your application for settlement when she returns to Thailand. If anything it will speed things up and save you a lot of money.

    I am not saying this is the correct way, but its the way we did it and nothing was mentioned by the ECO for us marrying on a V V.
    Im pretty sure marrying on a visit visa is not allowed anymore. We need to return to Thailand to do the settlement visa anyway and we have already been through the marriage process in Thailand so we know what to do. It's a long story why we are not married but involved losing passports and all the amphur's closing down for Buddha day and the Kings birthday... was a massive cock up.
    Really the only thing stopping us is the English pass so that is priority one for now.

  5. #25
    Forum Dinosaur ไดโนเสาร์ Flip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren View Post
    Im pretty sure marrying on a visit visa is not allowed anymore.
    Correct, its actually been that way a long time now.

  6. #26
    Premium Member Elad's Avatar
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    2012 when we did it.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elad View Post
    2012 when we did it.
    Wish I had done it then, who knows what it will be like in 2025

  8. #28
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    Darren when my wife failed, this was my mates advise. He is an English Professor in teaching English as a second Language based in China.

    https://www.ihbangkok.com/exam-prepa...lls-visa-exam/








    international house offer courses to prepare for the exam








    either 15 or 30 hour courses








    i think it might be money well spent








    and IH are usually a good school with pretty well-qualified teachers








    i've emailed them for all prices - days and times and asked how often and at what stages mock exams are held (they charge 500 baht for a separate mock exam)...

    my wife refused to do it. We will see if she made a wise decision next week. But might be another option for you.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    Darren when my wife failed, this was my mates advise. He is an English Professor in teaching English as a second Language based in China.

    https://www.ihbangkok.com/exam-prepa...lls-visa-exam/








    international house offer courses to prepare for the exam








    either 15 or 30 hour courses








    i think it might be money well spent








    and IH are usually a good school with pretty well-qualified teachers








    i've emailed them for all prices - days and times and asked how often and at what stages mock exams are held (they charge 500 baht for a separate mock exam)...

    my wife refused to do it. We will see if she made a wise decision next week. But might be another option for you.
    Thank's Carl. If the visit visa get's refused I will come back to Thailand and stay in Bangkok for the Month with Ket. She can then take a course like this and re-sit the IELTS.

    Right now getting to Bangkok and back home is a 2 day trip for Ket, doing an English course for 5 days followed by an exam on her own is just too much for her to take on alone.

    Her confidence has taken a knock from the whole process. Her first visa was refused, her second visa was granted but she was then grilled for 3 hours at Heathrow and almost turned back (I live in my business so her landing card showed a business name. Border force decided this meant she had come to work despite it being the exact same address in her application.) and now she has failed her English test. I am having to help her a lot, she's a simple farm girl from a rubber plantation in Chonburi with very little schooling. We will get there in the end.
    Last edited by Darren; 10th Aug 2018 at 21:30.

  10. #30
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    Hi Darren, my wife's first visit visa was also refused. There is a facebook group used by Thai women with British partners that my wife has got a lot of support from it has certainly helped build my wife confidence about the whole process.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    Hi Darren, my wife's first visit visa was also refused. There is a facebook group used by Thai women with British partners that my wife has got a lot of support from it has certainly helped build my wife confidence about the whole process.
    That sound's really good, can you share it or p.m me if you don't want it on the forum.

  12. #32
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    Im still a little confused as to why this option is not the best idea

    supporting letter extract:
    As stated in Ket's previous visit visa applications our long term plan is to marry and apply for settlement in the UK. The settlement process will take some time and we are not ready to start yet. Ket needs to improve her English and we need to consider how to help support her family if she leaves. This holiday will give Ket and I more time to be together and another opportunity to meet my family. She will also have time to practice and improve her English and she can attend the general English course at my local college. Bath college run an accredited part time English course that is two hours a week and will be perfect for Ket. Ket has been enrolled on the course and can start in November 2018, we understand she can only study for a maximum of 30 days during her visit. If Ket’s English improves enough she may also sit her GESE level 2 exam in Cardiff. At the end of the holiday Ket and I will fly back to Thailand together and begin her spouse visa application.

    We have a clear and truthful reason to return, in line with our previous applications. She has a reason for staying a long time, 1 day a week study falls within the allowed 30 days study. Study is not her main reason to visit because that is to spend time together and meet my family again..... any thoughts people? If the 30 days study is allowed why is it a bad idea to include it?

  13. #33
    Furniture เฟอร์นิเจอร์
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    You have said earlier that Ket stayed longer than she originally applied for but you have not said what the reason was only that it was genuine. It is not our business to know the reason. The ECO will have to see it as an acceptable reason not us anyway.

    You have to start looking and thinking along the lines of how the ECO will look at her application to visit not your own.
    Remember the ECO will take into account the first refusal, the 5 months stay rather than 2, the reason Ket stayed longer, and her reason to return apart from the fact she went home last time. What reason is there to return for this application?

    These points have to be rock solid. Not the reasons to visit, the reasons to visit is by no means the important thing in her application.

    If these points are answered to the satisfaction of the ECO and a visa is granted you still have to face the immigration officer at the airport that officer has the final stay.
    Did I see you say on another thread that Kat was held up on her last visit at immigration for 3 hours?

    I feel you need to concentrate on the reason to return, reason she stayed longer without including detailed reasons for her visit, as to much information could offer them a reason to decline the application.

  14. #34
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    The reason to return is in the reason to visit, she wants to improve her English so we can apply for settlement. The reason to return in our first 2 applications was because of family commitments and our future plans to marry and settlement in the UK. So her reason to return has not changed but I am trying to show we are moving towards our long term goal and there is some continuity here, and that is the truth anyway.
    The advice suggests don't mention the English or the marriage too much and just say it is a holiday - Im not sure I agree with that.

    Don't forget she has already shown that she will return and that carries some weight in future applications.

    She was detained at Heathrow because on her landing card her address was a restaurant in the UK. I own a restaurant and live above it, the border officer freak decided that meant she had come her to work. This address was used in her application and if that was her intention we would have been a bit smarter and not used a business adress

    - - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

    I think we're getting off track here, so lets put things back on track.

    1. we know she has to explain why she stayed longer than planned on her last visa.

    2. we know she needs a reason to return and that is the same as the last application, it cant change and it wont.

    3. what we dont know is, why is it a bad idea to include an explanation about taking the allowed 30 days study and sitting the SELTS exam if they are all part and parcel of the reason to return.

    This I don't get... Reason to return, her family and future marriage settlement plans (same as previous applications), reason for this visit visa - to improve English for future marriage and settlement plans.

    Seems a no brainer to me unless someone can explain why im wrong? or why the ECO will see it differently.

    oh and the reason ket stayed longer - was not sure Ket would like it or her family would cope without her help. We were wrong, she loved staying her and her family were fine without her. Pretty straightforward, Ket had never left her family for more than a month or left Thailand.

  15. #35
    Furniture เฟอร์นิเจอร์
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    I feel her reason to return is not strong enough. You are looking from your point of view only not from ECO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren View Post
    The reason to return is in the reason to visit, she wants to improve her English so we can apply for settlement.
    ECO can easily say she can learn English in Thailand, based on the fact you can pay for her trip to UK, support her while in UK, pay for course fees etc. so why can't you pay for her to attend a course in Pattaya or Bangkok for a month or so.

    Her reason to return is the main thing you need. If her intention is to settle here and she has no reason to return at all to Thailand what evidence do you have to show the ECO she will return. Other than it is to learn English so she can apply for settlement. If you have no solid evidence other than to learn English I feel it is unlikley to be granted.
    The only way to find out the ECO thinking would be to apply for a visit visa if granted no problem, if not, you know what to address. Explain everything you think you should but remember the more information you other than to visit you gives more opportunityand reasons for them to decline it.

    But look at the what the ECO will see, first application declined, second application was for one month, stayed five months, partner owns a restaurant (a common place for Thai people to work who don't return at the end of a visa) Immigration at airport already concerned about this. Reason to return on last application didn't apply and cannot be given again and now the reason to return is to want to learn English so Ket can apply for settlement visa.

  16. #36
    Premium Member caller's Avatar
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    Deleted. Sorry, didn't read whole thread by mistake before answering.

    Reinstated, as having re-read the whole thread nothing has changed and what I wrote is similar to what jimmbo has already said:

    Quote Originally Posted by rasg View Post
    Maybe she should simply take the English test again.


    Or as suggested above, attend formal training in Bkk (or wherever), not travelling daily which is a nonsense, leading to passing the English test. The cost wouldn't be prohibitive compared to the cost of an air fare and so on. And it's job done in what, a couple of months?

    Good luck with your visa application, but it does rather smack of coming up with a way of enabling her to stay here for as long as possible.
    Last edited by caller; 12th Aug 2018 at 07:16.
    'Tis me

  17. #37
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    Jimbo thanks for your advice but I don't agree with your point of view. I think you are skimming my answers.

    Her reason to return is the same on this application as it was on her first and second application. It has not changed. Her reason to return has always been her family commitments and our plans to marry and apply for settlement. It hasn't changed for us or in the applications. All that has changed now is that Ket has had one visit to the UK and returned.

    - - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by caller View Post
    Deleted. Sorry, didn't read whole thread by mistake before answering.

    Reinstated, as having re-read the whole thread nothing has changed and what I wrote is similar to what jimmbo has already said:



    Or as suggested above, attend formal training in Bkk (or wherever), not travelling daily which is a nonsense, leading to passing the English test. The cost wouldn't be prohibitive compared to the cost of an air fare and so on. And it's job done in what, a couple of months?

    Good luck with your visa application, but it does rather smack of coming up with a way of enabling her to stay here for as long as possible.
    The visit visa is for genuine visitor to the UK for holidays and upto 30 days study. There is no reason someone can not come for the full 6 months as long as they meet the criteria.
    We are not coming up with anything, we want to spend time together and we want Ket to improve her English to a level to obtain a settlement visa.
    Her English will and did improve much more whilst staying in the UK on a visit visa, if she takes a 5 day course in Bangkok it may well be cheaper if she went on to pass first time but not if she continues to fail. Two failed IELTS, a five day English course, travel to BKK and back with accommodation if going to come in at well over 25,000 baht

  18. #38
    Premium Member sisaket's Avatar
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    As always Reason to return is a major factor when applying for a Visit Visas, I think it's a great idea for your GF to improve her English, but I dont make Visa decisions.
    Have you checked out the English course and is your GF eligible to sit the course as a non -resident and non-UK/EU passport holder,one of the first things they normally check is ID and residence status (this always happened to my Mrs in UK) when enrolling (she never enrolled on a Visit Visa)
    There are many options for studying English in TH these days and not just in the major cities (the Decision Makers are fully aware of this)
    Good luck.... when planning writing the application put yourself in the shoes of the person reading the application and ask yourself is this a solid application or am I taking pot luck? Give them the correct evidence that they want to see.
    bangkok mags

  19. #39
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    Beginning to think we should drop the visit visa all together.

    Im going to the local college to speak to the head of the English language for foreign students department to get his opinion on short term study visas.

    All we really want to do is to get ket through the English test and get on with the settlement visa and avoid the complete lunacy of the visit visa. Personally if I never have to do one again I will be a happy chap.

    Neither of us want Ket to sit IELTS again, I have no confidence with how the test is run and whatever test she takes some more intense English practice is needed first, a short English course is BKK is not going to cut it.

    I don't see any reason why Ket does not meet the requirements for the STS visa and we avoid all this "the ECO will see it like this" rubbish.

  20. #40
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    "I don't see any reason why Ket does not meet the requirements for the STS visa and we avoid all this "the ECO will see it like this" rubbish."
    But to get a Student Visa she may well have to prove a certain level of English,but I think a very wise move in going to see the college as they will tell you all the up to date criteria.
    Mrs has taken a few IELTS tests (Academic) and they follow the same format and procedures no matter where they are taken, if your GF has been treated unfairly etc, there are procedures to make complaints.
    bangkok mags

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