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  1. #1
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    Marriage visa age raised to prevent forced marriages

    [Link updated by Admin 20/09/08]
    We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.

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    When will this come into effect? And any idea where and with whom I should register my intent to marry?

    Steve

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    Curious that they intend to address the 30% but no mention of the 70%.

    Something like, lets make alcohol more expensive so only the rich cn afford to get drunk approach. Or lets ban smoking except in the house of commons bars.

    And the latest stunning revealtion, MP's with a second job attend parliament less often than those who don't.

    GIVE ME STRENGTH!!!!!!!!!1
    Lucky

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    Do note that this is not just about raising the minimum age to 21. The proposals also include :-

    require all sponsors to register their intention to marry overseas before they leave the UK
    Hey wait a minute! All sponsors! Had the rule been in force in 2001 I personally would have needed to register! That is, because we got married in Thailand, prior to leaving the UK I would have needed to register that intention, in order to be permitted to sponsor Nat's spouse visa application.

    Conclusion .... many more people than appears to be the case at first glance ... are going to be affected by this new requirement.

    When does the requirement start? Reading the document I think it is in December 2008.
    John

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    hi john who do you have to register your intention to marry with over here ?
    also if you do'nt mind where do i submit my affirmation and how long does it take to get back, and what other paperwork do i need to take with me ?
    i am only going for 3 weeks nov/dec and need to do the office wedding and the village wedding in kk so i am wondering how long paperwork takes to be sorted.
    any help much appreciated,
    best regards gary.

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    Gary, I don't think that is clear yet. This procedure is not yet in force and details have yet to be announced.

    I think there is a lot to iron out here. For example, someone might get a job in say Thailand and live there for years before meeting someone they want to marry. Does the Government really expect them to fly back to the UK to register their intention to marry? Hopefully not .... hopefully that can be done in Thailand.

    And whilst I mention Thailand above, this legislation equally applies to all other countries. You can imagine a family emigrating to say Australia, including a 10yo. And now, say 15 years later, the 25yo wishes to get married and get their spouse a UK spouse visa. Surprise, surprise, the intention to marry was not given prior to departure from the UK!
    John

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    thanks for reply john any help on the other couple of matters ?

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    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    Isn't there a contradiction here?

    General Guidance for British Nationals wishing to marry in Thailand states "A couple must be of legal age (17 years) upon filing for marriage registration, otherwise permission must be granted by a court".

    Yet the Marriage visa age raised to prevent forced marriages
    states "The age at which someone can apply for a marriage visa will increase from 18 to 21 as part of a crackdown on forced marriage, the Home Office announced today."

    Am I missing something or can you legally marry in Thailand at 17 but you can not bring your wife back to the UK until she is 21?
    Gary
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    Isn't there a contradiction here?
    I don't think so. Thai law states that you need to be 17 or over to marry (parental permission needed if you're under 20). That hasn't changed.
    Am I missing something or can you legally marry in Thailand but you can not bring your wife back to the UK until she is 21?
    That's about right. You can still legally marry in Thailand between the ages of 17 and 20, but you'll have to wait until your 21st birthday before you can apply for a UK settlement visa.
    Paul พอล
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    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    Originally posted by maokaang:
    That's about right. You can still legally marry in Thailand between the ages of 17 and 20, but you'll have to wait until your 21st birthday before you can apply for a UK settlement visa.
    Would you need to register your intention to marry when 17? knowing that you can not come back until 21 or would you be refused permission to marry (how ever that might be done) and be asked to re-apply when 21?
    I'm ONE of the 52%

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    Gary, the detailed rules have not yet been published. We shall just have to wait and see.

    But I have just had this thought. The UK Government cannot possibly deny, because of age, to issue an EEA Family Permit or Residence Card, simply because the the applicant and/or the sponsor is under the age of 21.

    And indeed there is nothing, where the EEA Citizen is (solely) British, to stop the couple moving to another EEA country ... France, Spain etc etc ..... and having exercised EEA/EU Treaty Rights there, and the EEA citizen being employed or self-employed ... using the Surinder Singh route to get an EEA Family Permit to move to the UK.
    John

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    This government think they are clever!!!!! but they have not met you have they John
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    This government think they are clever!!!!! but they have not met you have they John


    ...or to be more specific Harriet Harperson thinks she's clever. But in the wider argument it cant be that bad a thing to try to stop forced marriages - its just a shame this wont work as you can marry at 16 here with parental consent, so the registration wont affect anything ( dont want to upset the human rights bandwagon do we ) And the visa will still be issued as by definition the forced spouse is unlikely to stuff up the application is she ?
    If these 'couples' are betrothed at an early age then a bit of a wait for the visa is unlikely to make much difference.
    The only way I see of dealing with this is to offer the partner under duress as much safety and support as possible to leave the marriage when here - which this legislation obviously isnt going to help facilitate.
    Honour good men, be courteous to all men, bow down to none.

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    its just a shame this wont work as you can marry at 16 here with parental consent
    True, but what it will stop is teenage girls being taken back "home" on holiday, such as to the Indian sub-continent, where their parents have actually arranged a marriage, unbeknown to their child! Yes the marriage can still take place but the lack of any spouse visa thereafter, at least for a period of years, negates any incentive for the parent to deceive their child so callously.

    So the two-pronged attack by the Government :-

    • delaying the visa until both the applicant and the sponsor are both at least 21, and
    • irrespective of age, forcing the British-resident party to register their intention to marry, prior to leaving the UK


    -: will actually go a long way to help solving the forced marriage problem.
    John

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    I see your point John but I dont think it will stop forced marriages, but could have an effect on arranged marriages.
    Those families intent on forcing their daughters to marry will simply marry them abroad and leave them there until they're 21.Which to my mind is worse than letting them come straight back here where the State can provide the support neccessary to leave the marriage - if need be.
    I also believe that the pre registration idea seriously underestimates the emotional, and physical, pressure placed on these young people.
    All in all it seems to me to be purely shifting the problem back to its source ie the medieval homelands.
    Honour good men, be courteous to all men, bow down to none.

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    Denmark has had these strict immigration rules for a while now. In Denmark the minimum age is 24. This would have hit my wife and I if I had been a Danish resident. Luckily, I lived in the UK and could obtain an EEA family permit (as mentioned above) despite the fact that my wife was only 22 when we got married.

    I cannot see this new 21 year rule hitting many Thai-Farang couples. The vast majority of western men marrying Thais are over 25 years of age and a substantial proportion are over 30 years of age. I have not heard of many men marrying 18-19 year old girls. The minimum of 21 is probably appropriate for some considering the period needed to show contact etc. Therefore, I doubt there will be many posters here complaining about complications for them regarding the minimum age in future.

    The Danish minimum of 24 has caused a lot of problems for many Thai-Danish couples, however. Many such couples reside on the Western coast of Sweden and then commute to Denmark for work. Others live and work in the UK on EEA family permits.

    Luckily, the UK government has not taken the drastic step of setting a minimum age at 24 which would complicate things for many whereas a minimum of 21 would overwhelmingly hit arranged marriages and only a tiny proportion of Thai-Farang marriages.

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    I have not heard of many men marrying 18-19 year old girls. The minimum of 21 is probably appropriate for some considering the period needed to show contact etc.

    Dak is 18 and was when we married here in Greenock in May this year. she came over on fiancee visa in March.

    Thank goodness this leglislation wasn't introduced a few months back or we could have had some heartache.

    I'm 35 by the way, I dont think I would marry an 18 year old scottish burd, but Dak has a maturity beyond her years.

  19. #19
    Moderator John's Avatar
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    A webpage on the UKBA website, published today, states that the change from 18 to 21 will take effect on 27th November.

    For more detail .... click here.
    John

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    Statement of Changes in Immigration Rules HC 1113 - November 2008:
    85. In paragraph 277, delete “18” and substitute ”21”.
    86. In paragraph 289AA, delete “18” and substitute “21”.
    87. In paragraph 295AA, delete “18” and substitute “21”.
    6.33 In order to ensure, as far as possible, consistency in the way that that spouses, fiancé(e)s, civil partners, proposed civil partners, unmarried and same-sex partners are treated under the Immigration Rules, the raising of the age from 18 to 21 has been applied to civil partners, proposed civil partners, unmarried and same-sex partners as well as to spouses and fiancé(e)s.

    6.34 If a person has already (at the time the change comes into effect) been granted entry clearance or leave as a spouse, civil partner, fiancé(e), proposed civil partner, unmarried or same-sex partner, he or she will not be prevented because he or she may be aged under 21 from applying for, and, if appropriate, being granted settlement.
    Living in the UK as a spouse or partner:
    As a limited concession, the change in minimum age to 21 will apply only to cases where the UK-based sponsor is present and settled in the UK, or is being admitted for settlement on the same occasion as the applicant.

    The minimum age of 18 will continue to apply to sponsors and their partners in those cases where the stay of a sponsor is subject to a time-limit (for example, students, work permit holders).
    We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.

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