Thailand-UK ประเทศไทย-สหราชอาณาจักร

Forums ฟอรั่มส์

Thanks Thanks:  11
Likes Likes:  30
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 58
  1. #1
    Premium Member i_hate_theo's Avatar
    Join Date
    30 Dec 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    419
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default FLR application for wife and daughter refused

    Yesterday I received a package from UKVI stating that my wife and daughters FLR application had been refused (they have both been in the UK for 5 ½ years).

    The reason for the refusal was “You do not meet the eligibility English language requirement…”. Screenshot of full refusal explanation provided below.

    I mistakenly (only now realising mistakenly!) used the A1 English certificate that I have used for the past 3 successful visa applications. Apparently I should have known that this is no longer valid as of May 2017. I needed to prove that she passed a test to a minimum of A2.

    Can anybody advise on what I should be doing next? I know I have 14 days to appeal.

    I believe that my wife could comfortably pass the test. Off her own back, my wife and a few of her friends done an English course at a local college last year. She may already have an A2 certificate off the back of this course, I still have to check this. I have yet to fully read the appeals process but will over the next few days. I am hoping that I can state that this was an oversight on my part, arrange for her to take the appropriate test, and then provide them the certificate (?). I desperately hoping that I can do all of this without either my wife or 7yo daughter having to leave the UK.

    A brief history of our current visa journey.

    December 2012, wife (then fiancé) and daughter entered the UK in December on a ‘marriage’ visa.
    March 2013 we marry in the UK.
    April 2013, FLR was granted until December 2015.
    December 2015, FLR was granted until July 2018.
    July 2018, FLR application made but refused.

    I appreciate that the July 2018 application could have been for ILR. There were a few things that contributed to this not being possible. We did not complete the LITUK test; a large contributing factor being my wife’s 23yo brother dying in March this year when we were over there on holiday. I didn’t want to have to put her through any additional stress or pressure and decided to make a third FLR application instead.

    The refusal reason:-

    reason.jpg

  2. #2
    Premium Member caller's Avatar
    Join Date
    7 Sep 2005
    Location
    Hua Hin & Bangkok
    Posts
    5,396

    Default

    I'm sorry I can't help, but desperately sorry to hear your news. I hope you can get it sorted in your favour asap. But I note you say you'll take all this in over the next few days, but I think urgency is the order of the day!
    'Tis me

  3. #3
    Veteran ผู้มีประสบการณ์
    Join Date
    24 Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,715

    Default

    Not sure if it's changed since we did it in 2015 (there might be different approved test providers) but if it hasn't the test is just a simple short conversation with someone, very easy said my wife. No stress and money for old rope for the testers!

    You'd better check the current requirements and list of approved testers pronto, see if you can arrange a quick test for her and check if you can add it in without having to shell out another fee. Otherwise it's an expensive oversight!

  4. #4
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ
    Join Date
    22 Nov 2003
    Location
    Egremont Cumbria
    Posts
    874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by i_hate_theo View Post
    Can anybody advise on what I should be doing next? I know I have 14 days to appeal.

    I believe that my wife could comfortably pass the test. Off her own back, my wife and a few of her friends done an English course at a local college last year. She may already have an A2 certificate off the back of this course, I still have to check this. I have yet to fully read the appeals process but will over the next few days. I am hoping that I can state that this was an oversight on my part, arrange for her to take the appropriate test, and then provide them the certificate (?)
    If your wife does have an A2 certificate, I would be informing them ASAP and that you supplied the wrong certificate in error.
    If not ,I would be trying to book an appointment to sit the A2 exam, again ASAP.

    https://www.ukvitest.com/?gclid=EAIa...SAAEgIGivD_BwE

  5. #5
    Premium Member i_hate_theo's Avatar
    Join Date
    30 Dec 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    419
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Thank you for the responses.

    Since my original post, I have had a chance to have a poke about online whilst at work. I have found the list of "Approved secure English language tests and test centres"

    https://assets.publishing.service.go..._-_website.pdf

    And also found a centre that is very near to my office with SELT test availability as early as this Saturday:-

    https://seltbooking.trinitycollege.c...examCenterId=7

    The thing I have yet to read through properly is the appeals process. Will work my way through that tonight.

  6. #6

    Default

    I do hope that it doesn't turn out to be a very expensive mistake and they allow you submit the A2 as soon as you have it.

    The faster the better I think. A2 isn't that much different from A1. If your wife can do B1 even better. It should carry her through to ILR when she applies for it. Unless they change the goalposts again, of course.

  7. #7
    Premium Member i_hate_theo's Avatar
    Join Date
    30 Dec 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    419
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Looked to book an A2 test with Trinity. The only acceptable forms of ID (that apply to us) to present before the test are Valid Passport or Valid BRP. UKVI have not returned these to me. They have sent all of the documentation I provided with the application and my passport but have retained the now out-of-data BRP and both my wife and daughters passports.

    I called UKVI to explain the situation. A totally unhelpful lady told me that I could not enquire about these documents or speak to anybody else about it. She refused to escalate this to a Manager as I requested. I was told to write a letter. I explained that I had 14 days to appeal and that time was of the essence. She didn't care, told me to write a letter.

    Surprise surprise, the appeals process in convoluted and difficult to understand. I would expect nothing less!!

    https://www.gov.uk/immigration-asylu...-within-the-uk

  8. #8

    Default

    I would call again and see it you get a more helpful person on the end of the phone.

    I know that MPs have no "clout" over the decision making process but he/she might at least be able to get somebody higher up to expedite things.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ
    Join Date
    28 Oct 2012
    Location
    Cleethorpes..the last resort.
    Posts
    891

    Default

    If she still has anytime left on her visa then you could apply again perhaps but this time with correct documentation and perhaps book one of the express visa applications where you can get it sorted out in a day instead of sending it to Durham..But this would mean paying the fees again..

  10. #10
    Premium Member i_hate_theo's Avatar
    Join Date
    30 Dec 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    419
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Unfortunately she doesn't have any time left on her visa. Applied on 10/7 expired on the 18/7. Procession time has been about 8 weeks, cannot apply for the visa anymore than 4 weeks prior to it expiring. There is never going to be any time left on the expiring visa by the time a decision is made with that turnaround time.

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Moderator
    Join Date
    28 Jun 2003
    Location
    London/Bangkok
    Posts
    2,415

    Default

    32B:
    ...
    the decision-maker may discount the test certificate or result and require the applicant to provide a new test certificate or result from an approved provider which shows that they meet the requirement, if they are not exempt from it.
    Appendix FM section 1.21:
    If there is uncertainty as to whether a test certificate, result or other specified document was previously accepted by the Home Office as part of a successful previous partner or parent application, the decision maker may request other specified evidence from the applicant to demonstrate that they meet the English language requirement.
    If the only reason for the refusal was a suspect English test, then a fair and sensible ECO/caseworker would have given the applicant an opportunity to provide other specified evidence.

    Moreover,

    HU071822015 & Ors. [2017] UKAITUR HU071822015 (14 August 2017):
    This appeal came before me for an error of law hearing on 19 July 2017. I found an error of law in the decision of the First tier Tribunal, which I append. The parties agreed I could re-make the decision without the need for an oral hearing, but with the assistance of written submissions, which I have now received.

    2. The only issue outstanding, it now being accepted that the Appellants meet the financial requirements of the Rules, is whether the Entry Clearance Officer erred in failing to contact the first Appellant to request an English language certificate from an approved provider, in line with the principle of evidential flexibility. This is now set out in Appendix FM SE, the relevant provisions of which are as follows: ...
    ...
    Answer
    36. I conclude that the answer to the question identified in para 1 above is "yes": the agency's refusal of Mr Mandalia's application was unlawful because, properly interpreted, the process instruction obliged it first to have invited him to repair the deficit in his evidence."
    ...
    We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.

  12. #12
    Old Hand มือเก่า
    Join Date
    29 Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,324

    Default

    The b1 test was very my wife said more so than the A1 so i should imagine the a2 is not to difficult ,like you said the ID doucuments is a problem you will need them for the test center ,Im not to sure if you have provide the certificate but there is a number on it you have to use ,also you wont get the certificate for at least a week. result of test is instant ,sure you can get the certificate posted out a bit quicker (pay for).
    Hope you get the right result looks like this needs 100 per cent of your time good luck.

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
    32B:If the only reason for the refusal was a suspect English test, then a fair and sensible ECO/caseworker would have given the applicant an opportunity to provide other specified evidence.

    Moreover,

    HU071822015 & Ors. [2017] UKAITUR HU071822015 (14 August 2017):
    It wasn't a "suspect" English test. It was the wrong English test.

    The rules were changed last year for a second (or third) FLR from A1 to A2 and the OP didn’t realise.

    If he gets his wife through the A2 test fast I hope UKVI allow him to submit it because it seems to be a genuine mistake. He won’t even need to send them the certificate. If I remember, Trinity College in Hammersmith usually take a few days to add the exam passes to their database and I would ask the school who does the test to expedite it, if possible.

    I would drop everything to get this sorted. The faster it is done the cheaper it might be...

  14. #14
    Moderator
    Join Date
    28 Jun 2003
    Location
    London/Bangkok
    Posts
    2,415

    Default

    The following may work?

    Wife and child should appeal.
    Take the appropriate test(s) (A2 or B1 plus Life in the UK)
    Withdraw Appeals.
    Make new applications within 14 days.
    We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children.

  15. #15
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ
    Join Date
    16 Jun 2008
    Location
    Whitley Bay, Newcastle
    Posts
    219

    Default

    My wife passed B1 with no problems - her english with new people isn't great but with a little practice that speaking and listening 10 minute test is pretty easy. Good luck and I hope you get it sorted.

  16. #16
    Moderator
    Join Date
    28 Jun 2003
    Location
    London/Bangkok
    Posts
    2,415

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rasg View Post
    It wasn't a "suspect" English test. It was the wrong English test.
    I think it depends on how narrowly or broadly the rules are interpreted.

    32B. Where the decision-maker has:
    (a) reasonable cause to doubt that an English language test in speaking and listening at a minimum of level A1 or A2 (as the case may be) of the Common Framework of Reference for Languages relied on at any time to meet a requirement for limited leave to enter or remain in Part 8 or Appendix FM was genuinely obtained; or
    (b) information that the test certificate or result awarded to the applicant has been withdrawn by the test provider for any reason,

    the decision-maker may discount the test certificate or result and require the applicant to provide a new test certificate or result from an approved provider which shows that they meet the requirement, if they are not exempt from it.
    Some caring caseworker/judge may choose to interpret 32B(a) as broadly as possible. They may reasonably doubt that the supplied test relied on at this time was genuinely obtained at a minimum A2 level. A broad interpretation would include submitted wrong tests. Such caseworker/judge may then interpret

    and require the applicant to provide a new test certificate or result from an approved provider which shows that they meet the requirement
    as giving the applicant an opportunity to take a new test.

    An uncaring caseworker may simply refuse the application without regard to its affect on the lives of the applicants, similar to another classic example.

    16. This is a classic example of a thoroughly unreasonable and disproportionate, inflexible, application of a policy, without the slightest regard for the facts of the case, or indeed elementary common sense and humanity. Such an approach diminishes, rather than encourages, respect for the policy in question....
    Last edited by Vinny; 11th Sep 2018 at 06:06.

  17. #17
    Premium Member i_hate_theo's Avatar
    Join Date
    30 Dec 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    419
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I have been in contact with a few immigration advisors. The suggested route would appear to be, appeal, which will buy us several months, sit the appropriate English test, withdraw the appeal and then submit new applications (may well change from FLR to ILR). I have received one proper quote via email detailing the service they would provide and the cost. The fees are £2,200 + VAT. The home office fees are paid separately and are not included in the fee.

    Looks like my mistake is going to cost me circa £5k to put right

  18. #18

    Default

    Why can’t you submit an appeal yourself and in the meantime get her through the A2 test and submit it?

    Most of the following places you can book a test for Thursday.

    https://www.trinitycollege.com/site/?id=3600

  19. #19
    Premium Member i_hate_theo's Avatar
    Join Date
    30 Dec 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    419
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I wish it was just as easy as sending a email / letter stating "I am appealing this decision". It doesn't appear as easy at that to me. This is the link I was directed to in the refusal letter:-

    https://www.gov.uk/immigration-asylum-tribunal

    "You can only appeal to the tribunal if you have the legal right to appeal- you'll usually be told if you do in your decision letter". Have I the legal right to appeal based on their reason for refusal? What am I appealing?

    The provide guidance for 'unrepresented appellants':-

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/unrepres...sylum-tribunal

    From the advice I have received so far, it would be unlikely that the any appeal would be successful.

  20. #20

    Default

    I see what you are saying.

    If you contact them and apologise explaining you made a mistake and you weren't aware that the language test requirement had changed and here is your wife's shiny new A2 certificate and will they please reconsider?

    I am surprised that they didn't give you an opportunity to put things right.

    I missed a couple of boxes with my wife's FLR and they sent the form back and asked me to answer them and send them back. Not quite the same thing but I was given the opportunity to put things right.

Similar Threads

  1. UK ILR Visa application refused
    By ironryon in forum UK Visas
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 20th Apr 2018, 23:07
  2. british citizenship can wife and daughter apply together ... daughter in uk 16 months
    By alanr in forum British Citizenship and Naturalisation
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 19th Oct 2012, 13:04
  3. Replies: 32
    Last Post: 13th Jan 2011, 13:03
  4. Visa Application Refused
    By RPT in forum UK Visas
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 21st Nov 2010, 10:19
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 7th Sep 2008, 07:32

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •