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  1. #521
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    You’re not actually doing anything wrong, toddmeister. It is your employer who is at risk, it would be them who lose out should they be found out. And good on them for giving you full pay. Don’t give it a second thought
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  2. #522
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    Well I understand we all have our own points of view Barnett but the UK government failings in addressing this virus are very clear and become more public every day whether you compare them to other countries or not. They are doing their best now but the mounting evidence cannot be denied although I suspect will be swept away in time to come. Numbers are numbers although maybe you can then argue that thousands and thousands of extra deaths is okay just because the UK is unique in some way and nothing to do with the British parliament sleep walking into the crisis. An appropriate quote for me would be the possibly well known Outlaw Josey Wales movie line.. 'Don't ❇❇❇❇ down my back and tell me it's raining'. With respect Barnett of course

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnet View Post
    Nick, you can't possibly compare the situation here to the UK. I think that's what is confusing so many people. If you are happy with the Govt. here so be it, that's your opinion and you're perfectly entitled to it but why keep comparing it to the UK or Europe or US? The numbers there are far higher due to completely different factors. I still maintain Thailand have come through this through sheer luck and the sensible behaviour of the locals. Col. Cuckoo sent everyone packing on public transport in their droves after closing BKK without a plan. He kept immigration going right to the end and of course, the big one, he allowed the Chinese tourists and the likes of me to keep coming in after the warnings were given. Allowed Thais to come back from hot spots without checking. Add to this a minister who called all foreigners dirty, another minister who predicted Chinese tourists would be flocking back in April....they're complete and utter muppets. Imagine the UK or US having an MP calling all immigrants dirty and keeping his job? Put some perspective on what you're comparing mate.

  3. #523

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    Italy warned the rest of Europe to prepare a few months ago. They were the first European country to be badly hit by the virus and had initially played down the concerns. At the end of February Nicola Zingaretti (leader of the governing Democratic party) whose wider Lombardy region is the centre of the outbreak, told a group of students “We must not change our habits,” and, “Our economy is stronger than fear: let’s go out for an aperitivo, (aperitif) a coffee or to eat a pizza.”

    This week news articles are stating ministers were advised to stockpile PPE last year in case of even a mild outbreak and that a plan was needed to: 'mitigate the risks of social and economic catastrophe'.




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  4. #524
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    Do we all know that cats can get covid-19.
    So if you have any cats, and you stroke or pat it, make sure you wash your hands.

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  5. #525
    Premium Member caller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    This week news articles are stating ministers were advised to stockpile PPE last year in case of even a mild outbreak and that a plan was needed to: 'mitigate the risks of social and economic catastrophe'.
    Governments are advised to do a million and one things all the time. They can't. Some will come back to bite them.
    'Tis me

  6. #526

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    Quote Originally Posted by caller View Post
    Governments are advised to do a million and one things all the time. They can't. Some will come back to bite them.

    Fair point Caller, but it's usually the general public who pay for any short sightedness. I suspect no action was taken for financial reasons - once again. It should be about prioritisation.
    The clock on the wall reads a quarter past midnight

  7. #527
    Premium Member caller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    Fair point Caller, but it's usually the general public who pay for any short sightedness. I suspect no action was taken for financial reasons - once again. It should be about prioritisation.
    Well, yes. Absolutely. And it is. And money is a factor obviously. Low tax is a big priority for lots of people as well. Every industry, charities and pressure groups, environmentalists and the like, will be pressuring the Govt. to do this, buy that, not to mention Joe Public at elections. Not that long ago the priority was the North and that was widely applauded, Brexit and so on. Local Government which will be badgering for this, that and the other of their priorities. The NHS too. The armed forces need beefing up and there will be a million and one other priorities. Govt. really needs a crystal ball and a magic wand.
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  8. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    Fair point Caller, but it's usually the general public who pay for any short sightedness. I suspect no action was taken for financial reasons - once again. It should be about prioritisation.
    The general public are also blame, you do have to question why some have behaved in the manner they have.
    When the UK went it lockdown, it was lke someone had put up a big sign that the lake district was open for business. Business's prior were complaing about the lack of trade only for the opposite to happen.

    I don't think its the time for finger pointing at the moment, some countries reacted better than others or they were plain lucky.

    We seem to have become a scoeity were we want more for less, if we want to be better prepared and have billions more pumped in to the NHS etc etc. Then we all need to pay more tax and weed out all the waste and bureaucracy crap.

  9. #529

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    Quote Originally Posted by caller View Post
    Well, yes. Absolutely. And it is. And money is a factor obviously. Low tax is a big priority for lots of people as well. Every industry, charities and pressure groups, environmentalists and the like, will be pressuring the Govt. to do this, buy that, not to mention Joe Public at elections. Not that long ago the priority was the North and that was widely applauded, Brexit and so on. Local Government which will be badgering for this, that and the other of their priorities. The NHS too. The armed forces need beefing up and there will be a million and one other priorities. Govt. really needs a crystal ball and a magic wand.
    Well the army have offered to run the NHS after seeing first hand how it's being managed. I think in these 'modern times' it isn't a crystal ball that is needed but more planning for the inevitable consequences. Many times in articles, on different topical subjects, I've read people (often dealing with the issues) saying we're sleep walking into future problems which have been hinted at for a few decades now.

    - - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg / Pairin View Post
    The general public are also blame, you do have to question why some have behaved in the manner they have.
    When the UK went it lockdown, it was lke someone had put up a big sign that the lake district was open for business. Business's prior were complaing about the lack of trade only for the opposite to happen.

    I don't think its the time for finger pointing at the moment, some countries reacted better than others or they were plain lucky.

    We seem to have become a scoeity were we want more for less, if we want to be better prepared and have billions more pumped in to the NHS etc etc. Then we all need to pay more tax and weed out all the waste and bureaucracy crap.
    Italy was very laissez faire initially until early March when it was obvious things were much more serious, which is when they warned other countries they were only a few weeks behind them. Not so much finger pointing but trying to understand why some countries are fairing much better than others.


    Before billions more is pumped into the NHS many issues need sorting first or the money will just be wasted.

    To some the answer will always be 'pay more tax' but if money wasn't squandered and mis-appropriated services would run fine but often tax payers money is seen as an unlimited pool, and it is always those at the bottom (most vulnerable) who will go without and be expected to make up for any shortfalls.
    The clock on the wall reads a quarter past midnight

  10. #530
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg / Pairin View Post
    ... I don't think its the time for finger pointing at the moment, some countries reacted better than others or they were plain lucky...
    I agree wholeheartedly. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, the public don't realise the amount of work that is going on in the background. Whilst it might appear a government is doing nothing, in the background large teams are planning and discussing options. The government's approach to this emergency wasn't made up on the fly, a large amount of preparation and consideration has been going on for a considerable period.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    Well the army have offered to run the NHS after seeing first hand how it's being managed...
    This is the first I've heard any mention of this. Are you able to provide a source?
    Tobias - โทเบียส
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  11. #531

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, the public don't realise the amount of work that is going on in the background. Whilst it might appear a government is doing nothing, in the background large teams are planning and discussing options. The government's approach to this emergency wasn't made up on the fly, a large amount of preparation and consideration has been going on for a considerable period.



    This is the first I've heard any mention of this. Are you able to provide a source?

    And yet look at the figures. Some people have been questioning the lockdown as they can't go to their local pub yet:

    Flights are continuing to arrive in Britain from some of the worst-hit countries of the coronavirus epidemic despite a nationwide lockdown restricting travel inside the country.
    From late March.


    Earlier this month the EU agreed to ban nearly all flights from outside the area for 30 days but the UK did not have to follow this now it has officially left the bloc.


    Senior ministers appear to be split over what to do. Home Secretary Priti Patel is reportedly in favour of banning routes from disease-hit countries while Boris Johnson and Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab don’t want to stop citizens from coming home by sealing off Britain’s borders, according to the Times.





    I have read a lot of articles over the weeks. After a quick search (to show the feeling):

    Military personnel have criticised the NHS for its “appalling” handling of distributing personal protective equipment.

    A senior army source lambasted the health service for its logistics for PPE, alleging that masks, aprons, gloves and other items were being assigned to hospitals without regard to relative need, leading to oversupply in some areas and shortages in others.





    Then there are articles such as this one:

    This time is different. In theory, we could have said, “Oh well, the elderly are expendable. We can’t close everything on their behalf.” That is pretty close to what Boris Johnson did say before his road-to-Damascus experience in an NHS hospital ward (“some of us will lose our loved ones….”). Now Britain’s prime minister sees the light.


    https://www.ft.com/content/c3bdecce-...9-efb2525f0876


    Please realise why I question the decisions being made when I read many articles saying similar things, it isn't just my personal view.

    Last edited by marshall; 25th Apr 2020 at 15:25.
    The clock on the wall reads a quarter past midnight

  12. #532
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    Well the army have offered to run the NHS after seeing first hand how it's being managed...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    This is the first I've heard any mention of this. Are you able to provide a source?
    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    ... I have read a lot of articles over the weeks. After a quick search (to show the feeling):

    "Military personnel have criticised the NHS for its “appalling” handling of distributing personal protective equipment.

    A senior army source lambasted the health service for its logistics for PPE, alleging that masks, aprons, gloves and other items were being assigned to hospitals without regard to relative need, leading to oversupply in some areas and shortages in others."
    So the army have not said they wish to take over the NHS?
    Tobias - โทเบียส
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  13. #533

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    So the army have not said they wish to take over the NHS?

    Offered to run a part of it I should've made clearer, after seeing the chaos at first hand recently picking up PPE from abroad.
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  14. #534
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    I heard the army were ready should they be called on, whether that was to be involved with the NHS or if civil unrest broke out, then I don't know.

    I would of thought that if the army was deployed in anyway it could of sent out the wrong message to the general public. The public need to stay calm and follow the government guidelines, having the army deployed or running the NHS could do exactly the opposite.

  15. #535
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    Offered to run a part of it I should've made clearer, after seeing the chaos at first hand recently picking up PPE from abroad.
    Now I know what you are referring to. The army are not seeking to run the NHS nor any part of it. They simply said they were 'surprised not to have been called up to help more' [referring to the logistics]. Whilst they are critical of the way in which the NHS handles its logistics, they offered help without any suggestion they 'took over' - which they are now doing.

    The article is here: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...-kit-jdh369k6r
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  16. #536
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    MACC, MACA and MACP are some of the best things HM Forces can do for the people of their country, I did the firemans strike and my unit was involved in the ambulace strike although I was not.
    Even the helping of evacuating people from flooded areas or sandbagging areas to prevent water are great. It keeps the Military in the public eye, and IMHO they are not utilised enough

  17. #537
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    I think it did not help when the disease was classified as an enemy of the aged or infirmed, loads of people had no fear and hit the pubs etc. Now we know that nobody is safe i think things have changed. They have started classifying older s 60+ now from what i have seen though 70+ is the hide yourself away forever age. I am seeing stuff every day now of people linked to NHS staff in ICU who are in their 30's and 40's and 50's. My best friend's wife has been on a ventilator for 22 days asleep aged 49 and fir as a fiddle, she is a care worker in a hospital in Cardiff, all the family have it has hit her bad, seems the virus is selective sometimes and we do not know why, or at least i don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg / Pairin View Post
    The general public are also blame, you do have to question why some have behaved in the manner they have.
    When the UK went it lockdown, it was lke someone had put up a big sign that the lake district was open for business. Business's prior were complaing about the lack of trade only for the opposite to happen.

    I don't think its the time for finger pointing at the moment, some countries reacted better than others or they were plain lucky.

    We seem to have become a scoeity were we want more for less, if we want to be better prepared and have billions more pumped in to the NHS etc etc. Then we all need to pay more tax and weed out all the waste and bureaucracy crap.

  18. #538
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    Throughout this pandemic there has been a very fine balance between keeping people from hysteria and driving home a message that this is serious. I think/hope that people are now accustomed to what is necessary I only hope they understand that if it does come back it will be more severe. So far the local folk have behaved impeccably but there are already signs that the worst has passed and normality can resume.

  19. #539
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    I only hope they understand that if it does come back it will be more severe.
    There is no evidence to suggest it will be more severe ?? but it will come back almost 100% sure
    Human beings are seventy percent water, and with some the rest is collagen

  20. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickj1000 View Post
    I think it did not help when the disease was classified as an enemy of the aged or infirmed.
    Death can be caused by Covid in all age groups - True. But if affects the elderly, sick and infirm far harder than anyone else.

    These figures come from New York City based on the number of deaths up to April 14th

    Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%).

    0-9 Years Old - No deaths
    10-19 Years Old - 0.2%
    20-29 Years Old - 0.2%
    30-39 Years Old - 0.2%
    40-49 Years Old - 0.4%
    50-59 Years Old - 1.3%
    60-69 Years Old - 3.6%
    70-79 Yeas Old - 8.0%
    80+ Years Old - 14.8%

    Also the death rate for people with no underlying health conditions was 0.9%.
    If you're offended by any assistance I give, it says far more about you than it does me.

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