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  1. #1
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    Default UK stores stop selling some brands of Thai Coconut milk

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...xdazXt&ampcf=1

    I was not aware that monkey's were used for such work.

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    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    "Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s fiancée Carrie Symonds on Friday welcomed pledges by four British retailers to stop selling coconut products that use monkey labour in their production, and urged others to do the same.

    Symonds, a conservationist, was responding to a report in the Telegraph newspaper that highlighted the use of pigtailed macaques taken from the wild in Thailand and used on farms to scurry up trees and harvest coconuts.

    The report cited an investigation by the animal rights organisation PETA Asia.

    “Glad Waitrose, Co-op, Boots & Ocado have vowed not to sell products that use monkey labour, while Morrisons has already removed these from its stores,” Symonds tweeted."

    Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN2440TU
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    Premium Member caller's Avatar
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    Interesting. I would imagine that many plantations or those just growing on owned land, certainly in the areas I know, would use a man and a monkey to harvest coconut. Quite a spectacle to watch actually.
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    Premium Member sisaket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natty View Post
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...xdazXt&ampcf=1

    I was not aware that monkey's were used for such work.
    Surat Thani Monkey College.
    http://www.firstschoolformonkeys.com/
    Was winding my Mrs up the other day about the monkey college.
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    Perhaps controversially I don't have a problem with that. I would want them well treated and ideally bred in captivity so not many taken from the wild. I have a dog it could be used for herding sheep, collecting shot ducks or just plain guarding my property, they can earn their keep. Elephants in Myanmar used for logging if they are kept well and not mistreated do a good job, only selected trees are removed from the forest not butchered by machines, we have to work and integrate with animals it helps them survive as a species.
    I think it is better than breeding animals for slaughter.

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    I was going to say the same, about some animals liking the concept of work and reward. I think the issue here is Thailand. They have a repulsive reputation for their treatment of animals and I very much imagine this has been investigated and exposed for what it is.

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    Member สมาชิก Baz M's Avatar
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    Have you tried getting coconuts down...my god!!

    I think it was a kind of an initiation ceremony / bonding with my new Father-in-law as he handed me a 30 ft long bendy branch with a curved knife tied on the end to hook onto the coconuts. It isn't easy, I can certainly vouch for that...If I had a coconut plantation I would certainly want a Monkey up that tree prodding them all off in seconds few. If they are kept like a member of the family like a sheep dog then I really cannot see a problem with this. Another thing us Brits like to stick our noses into.

    At the end of the day, who is right? The British Govt or the Thai govt on what is right or wrong. If it was so bad, you'd like to think the Thai govt would deal with it rather than us getting involved yet again in another Countries affairs half way across the globe.

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    Premium Member sisaket's Avatar
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    Came across this just now on my FB feed, I have known about this problem in Lopburi for a while, whilst nothing to do with with using monkeys for coconut production it does give an insight into human / monkey relationships in TH.
    Top Tip: anyone thinking of going to the Khmer Temple in Lopburi, take off jewelry, rings, ear rings etc you will be a target. I advised my Mrs to take everything off, I thought she had, but left studs in her ears to which they were ripped out.
    With regards to the PMs GF and her tweets, we dont know what is in PETA Asia's report, but ethically if monkey's used in coconut production are treated well, I would not have a problem with this, from what I ve seen they are extremely agile and make short work of getting coconuts to the ground, much better than any human, especially the graduates from ST Monkey College.
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    Premium Member sisaket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sisaket View Post

    Came across this just now on my FB feed, I have known about this problem in Lopburi for a while, whilst nothing to do with with using monkeys for coconut production it does give an insight into human / monkey relationships in TH.
    Top Tip: anyone thinking of going to the Khmer Temple in Lopburi, take off jewelry, rings, ear rings etc you will be a target. I advised my Mrs to take everything off, I thought she had, but left studs in her ears to which they were ripped out.
    With regards to the PMs GF and her tweets, we dont know what is in PETA Asia's report, but ethically if monkey's used in coconut production are treated well, I would not have a problem with this, from what I ve seen they are extremely agile and make short work of getting coconuts to the ground, much better than any human, especially the graduates from ST Monkey College.
    Update: We now have an idea what is likely to be in PETA Asis's report.
    https://thethaiger.com/news/business...ts-in-thailand
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz M View Post
    Have you tried getting coconuts down...my god!!

    I think it was a kind of an initiation ceremony / bonding with my new Father-in-law as he handed me a 30 ft long bendy branch with a curved knife tied on the end to hook onto the coconuts. It isn't easy, I can certainly vouch for that...If I had a coconut plantation I would certainly want a Monkey up that tree prodding them all off in seconds few. If they are kept like a member of the family like a sheep dog then I really cannot see a problem with this. Another thing us Brits like to stick our noses into.

    At the end of the day, who is right? The British Govt or the Thai govt on what is right or wrong. If it was so bad, you'd like to think the Thai govt would deal with it rather than us getting involved yet again in another Countries affairs half way across the globe.
    If.....they are kept well is the point. I can't see so many big names making a decision like this without hard evidence and I certainly wouldn't trust the word of the Thai Govt.

    If it was so bad would the Thai Govt. do a thing? In a word no. Not this one nor any other before it. Animal and human rights abuse is a regular occurrence throughout the country and the entire country turn a blind eye to it. If they want to that's one thing but to expect other countries to allow them to profit from it is another. I'm made up that, like the fishing industry, importers of Thai goods are forcing malpractices to stop.

  11. #11
    Member สมาชิก Barrington's Avatar
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    There is some element of dual standards here. What about UK horse racing, all that whipping the horses in the last 100 yrs. What about using horses and packs of staving dogs to chase other animals/foxes to death. When a young horse is trained it is called 'Breaking it in'. What about spurs, metal spikes attached to you boots and used to kick horses in the guts. What about keeping them in sheds for 23 hours a day living in their own ❇❇❇❇.
    It is easy to blame a far away county, much more difficult to turn the spotlight closer to home.

  12. #12
    Premium Member sisaket's Avatar
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz M View Post
    At the end of the day, who is right? The British Govt or the Thai govt on what is right or wrong.
    I don't think it has anything to do with the British Government. Rather, a group of companies reacting to a report by PETA.

    - - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Barrington View Post
    There is some element of dual standards here. What about UK horse racing, all that whipping the horses in the last 100 yrs. What about using horses and packs of staving dogs to chase other animals/foxes to death. When a young horse is trained it is called 'Breaking it in'. What about spurs, metal spikes attached to you boots and used to kick horses in the guts. What about keeping them in sheds for 23 hours a day living in their own ❇❇❇❇.
    It is easy to blame a far away county, much more difficult to turn the spotlight closer to home.
    Erm, whipping in horse racing is controlled, fox hunting is outlawed and those 'starving' dogs are some of the fittest around. Nor do precious commodities, such as race horses, spend 23 hours a day in stables, not sheds, in their own ❇❇❇❇e. Can't answer about spikes in spurs as when I used to ride (not race horses, just an occasional hobby), there definitely were no spikes.
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  14. #14
    Premium Member Grahame's Avatar
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    What is wrong with using Monkeys as long as they are well cared for and looked after!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grahame View Post
    What is wrong with using Monkeys as long as they are well cared for and looked after!
    Agreed, some animals love to work but can you be certain these monkeys are being taken care of? I know I don't trust a word these coconut farmers nor the Thai govt. are saying. Weren't the tigers in temples and zoos supposedly well cared for also? By monks!

    I could sit here all day bringing up conclusive examples of animal cruelty in Thailand.

    Why would this PETA group investigate it in the first place, and huge companies such as Tesco and Morrisons listen if there was any doubt?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnet View Post
    Why would this PETA group investigate it in the first place, and huge companies such as Tesco and Morrisons listen if there was any doubt?
    I think that if a report is salacious enough, even without any independent verification, that companies will react to it. To me, it's a form of modern tyranny forced upon companies, almost as a form of blackmail. If it really is as bad as the report claims - and their first point, that monkeys are seized from the wild, is hotly disputed - then fair enough. But I think the Thais should have been asked for their response first.

    I think there are more concerns of the human kind to worry about in Thailand, than monkeys. Which bugs me a little
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  18. #18
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    They are reacting I think to Boris' Mrs. Carrie Symonds who saw the video. She has been actively discouraging importing the milk and associated products. I am not sure how old this video of the monkeys is but the the EU looked at this a couple of years ago according to the Bangkok Post and after after investigating found that there was not the scale of cruelty suggested in the video so the EU continue to import the milk etc. I am sure though like with any animal in any country that there are some bad handlers and the UK is not exemp for sure
    https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand...mWd_ff6k55j1Z0

    Quote Originally Posted by caller View Post
    I don't think it has anything to do with the British Government. Rather, a group of companies reacting to a report by PETA.

    - - - - - - - u p d a t e d - - - - - - -



    Erm, whipping in horse racing is controlled, fox hunting is outlawed and those 'starving' dogs are some of the fittest around. Nor do precious commodities, such as race horses, spend 23 hours a day in stables, not sheds, in their own ❇❇❇❇e. Can't answer about spikes in spurs as when I used to ride (not race horses, just an occasional hobby), there definitely were no spikes.

  19. #19
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    An article from a representative of PETA has appeared in this morning's Bangkok Post. I find the certainty of the authors belief a little unsettling, being honest. No doubt at all of the accuracy of their findings, which I guess is unsurprising, as you would expect him to be a zealot. I noticed they state they had written to the two companies concerned and didn't receive a response. maybe they should have asked those they actually investigated?

    https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/...-industry-ruin
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  20. #20
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    I have to say that I am surprised that the paper would allow an organisation like this put their own story in the paper without their own investigation. Really for the full truth to be found there needs to be some investigative journalism or a government inspection of sorts rather than take PETA's word for it. I have heard some bad things about PETA as well, zealots being the correct phrase. Nevertheless maybe what they say is all true but we cannot be sure until it is looked at by an unbiased party....If there is such a thing !
    Quote Originally Posted by caller View Post
    An article from a representative of PETA has appeared in this morning's Bangkok Post. I find the certainty of the authors belief a little unsettling, being honest. No doubt at all of the accuracy of their findings, which I guess is unsurprising, as you would expect him to be a zealot. I noticed they state they had written to the two companies concerned and didn't receive a response. maybe they should have asked those they actually investigated?

    https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/...-industry-ruin

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