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  1. #1
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    We are currently waiting for Nok's ILR to be processed and hopefully not putting a jinks on things we have been looking at the next step of getting Nok a British passport by way of citizenship.

    Having looked through the form (why the hell I did not do this 3 years ago I don't know) I have now found looking at Section 5: Referees & Identity, Section 5.1 states "One referee should be a person of any nationality who has professional standing, e.g. doctor, minister of religion, civil servant, or a member of a professional body e.g. accountant or solicitor"....

    OK we thought, no problem, Nok has a doctor from Malaysia who she gets on really well with when she has to see him. We approached the doctor the other day to ask if he would sign the form and he told us that "it is against practise policy for any doctor to sign any sort of immigration form" but he can sign a passport photo to confirm her identity
    I did point out that we need to get her citizenship before we can apply for passport for him to sign the photo. No joy

    So it appears we may have fallen foul of not making the right friends for the last 3 years

    Whilst I appreciate that the UK Border Agency has a lot to do but why oh why are people not told of these things when they come here. How is Nok supposed to "make friends" with the right people if she did not know she had too?

    Now we are off to find and stalk a "professional person" for the next 3 years
    Independence Day 31st January 2020

  2. #2
    Veteran ผู้มีประสบการณ์ db1's Avatar
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    Gary, dont get too despondant, there are lots of people out there who can sign for you, in my case it was my Landlord he was a retired dispatcher for BA and his wife was a retired school teacher, we went through the checking service and no problems.
    dont judge me by my past, I dont live there anymore.

    David & Aree

  3. #3
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    So it appears we may have fallen foul of not making the right friends for the last 3 years
    Hope you're not including your friendly neighbourhood bog salesman in that statement, i maybe cannot sign any forms for you but i can supply you with a nice new bog one day.
    Thought your mate Ghandi from Goa was a pro ??

  4. #4
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    db1, thanks but been racking my brains (yeah I know it didn't take too long) but still can't think of anyone we know that will fit the profile.

    Originally posted by Greenheathen:
    Thought your mate Ghandi from Goa was a pro ??
    He might be a pro at something (not sure what) but not the pro I need to sign the form
    Independence Day 31st January 2020

  5. #5
    Veteran ผู้มีประสบการณ์ db1's Avatar
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    Gary did your wife take esol lessons, then maybe her teacher, anybody who owns a business ie: local Thai Restaurant.
    dont judge me by my past, I dont live there anymore.

    David & Aree

  6. #6
    Premium Member KhunIanB-UK's Avatar
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    Gary,

    Same situation from this Thread and hopefully some advice, book an appointment with the Doctor and lay on the stress that the situation is causing you, not being able to sleep etc, and the doc is the only one who can help, beg, grovel and plead, you may be successful even if it costs. Good Luck.

  7. #7
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    db1, did my wife take ESOL lessons don't start me on that one (look at my rantings on other threads). Long story short, yes she did but never in one place long enough to fulfil this obligation, nice thought though.

    Ian, thanks very much for the link. Apologies for bringing up an old discussion, have read and digested comments.

    I shall have a gander at the list of referees and see if there is anyone there that might just fit the bill (fingers crossed).

    Have updated the link to the list of referees as page has moved (Gov. obviously don't want to make things too easy for us).
    Cheers
    Gary

    [Edit after looking at list]
    Local Thai Restaurant, like the one she works in at the weekends (oh what an idiot I am, didn't class that as professional) excellent idea, doh!

    not on the list
    Independence Day 31st January 2020

  8. #8
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    I don't think that, at least on this occasion, this problem can be laid at the government's door. The requirement to have referees for both naturalisation and first passport applications has been there for as long as I can recall.

    Where I have noticed a change is in the willingness of those who may act in such a capacity to actually take the responsibility of presenting themselves as referees, some believing that they are signing their lives away. If they were to read the forms, they would see that they are simply acknowledging that they have known the person making for the application for a given period of time. Either they have or they haven't: it's not a trick question.

    Of those who decline to act as a referee, most will try to avoid taking the blame for their refusal by passing it off as some nebulous policy of their employer: one a client encountered recently was, "Such-and-such a police force does not allow officers to act as referees.", which to my mind, is codswallop. It is a simply a case that the police officer did not want to take the responsibility of signing it himself. However, when someone does not want to sign, they ain't going to sign, and there is no means of compelling them.

    Consequently, the difficulty is not necessarily that referees are required, but that even though an applicant for naturalisation may well know someone who fits the bill, that person may simply decline to assist. When this occurs, the poor sod who meets the requirements, but can't find a signatory, enters the bizarre Kafka-esque world that more and more of us are being compelled to inhabit, especially those who have to have dealings with the UKBA.

    Indeed, a case-in-point, if somewhat tangential: the requirement for FLR(M) applicants to give their biometric details has recently been introduced. Applications may still be submitted by post, but the applicant then has to arrange to attend one of the prescribed UKBA offices to donate of their dabs within three weeks. So far, so good. However, upon ringing the contact centre you are placed in a queue for an interminable length of time. On the odd occasion when someone deigns to actually answer, you are told that the computers are down and are invited to wait on hold. Twenty-five minutes later the phone line goes dead. And so it goes on...

    So, the government and the UKBA have created the requirement for foreign nationals to hold ID cards, but they have singularly failed to put in place the infrastructure to allow people to comply with their directions to obtain a card. No doubt, three weeks later, the unfortunate foreigner's application will be refused for having failed to present himself for the purposes of obtaining an ID card, and this because he's spent all that time on the bloody phone to the contact centre trying to arrange his appointment.

  9. #9
    Moderator John's Avatar
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    the difficulty is not necessarily that referees are required, but that even though an applicant for naturalisation may well know someone who fits the bill, that person may simply decline to assist.
    I think that the fact that referees are now required to state their passport number is a lot to do with the reluctance of people to act as referees, living as we do in the age of stolen IDs, having to state that detail is not helpful to the process.

    It also means that those who do not have a passport are unable to sign. One of our local Councillors here has, over the years, signed quite a few forms, but given they have no intention of travelling out of the UK, and do not possess a passport, no longer can they do that.
    John

  10. #10
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    That's certainly a factor.

    Unfortunately, when referees were not obliged to give their passport numbers, the less scrupulous were getting up to all sorts of tricks.

  11. #11
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    I for one can not understand the reluctance of some people to be a referee (probably because of the situation we find ourselves in) but I would have bet anything that our Malaysian doctor would have been happy to assist as I am sure someone must have assisted him seeing as he is a Doctor in a foreign country.

    Now I am sure that the practise "rule" could easily have been put aside and he sign the form, even if he asked us not to shout it from the rooftops (and why would I not agree to do so if he helped us out of a great predicament) but he has deemed to use the practise as a way of not doing so (even if it is true). Sour grapes, yes.

    The list that the government supply as persons able to sign as referees appears to be quite long but to be honest when you look at it I would bet there are not that many people new to the country that will run in the same circles as people on that list (or indeed know that they need to).
    Independence Day 31st January 2020

  12. #12
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    gary how about someone from your bank signing the form.

    steve

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