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  1. #1
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    Hi all,

    Anybody knows about this please? Right now we are living with Gary's Mom (2 bed rooms)and Craig (our son) is growing up so it's a bit too tight now I was talking with Gary about moving but he prefers to apply for Housing Associasion because it's more cheaper than private rent. But he is afraid than once I have to apply for my ILR next year (June2007) it will against them rules cos it's like a public funds????

    Or he can apply only himself without my name get involved like tax credit award thing???

    Please Advice, thanx
    Nana Gary&Craiggy

  2. #2
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    Hi all,

    Anybody knows about this please? Right now we are living with Gary's Mom (2 bed rooms)and Craig (our son) is growing up so it's a bit too tight now I was talking with Gary about moving but he prefers to apply for Housing Associasion because it's more cheaper than private rent. But he is afraid than once I have to apply for my ILR next year (June2007) it will against them rules cos it's like a public funds????

    Or he can apply only himself without my name get involved like tax credit award thing???

    Please Advice, thanx
    Nana Gary&Craiggy

  3. #3
    Veteran ผู้มีประสบการณ์ Marcus's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Go ahead and apply. It can all be done through the British partner's name.

    Not that anyone will be in a hurry to help - if our experience is anything to go by. Not only has the council/housing association refused to help us find affordable housing, they also wrote to tell us that if and when we bring our son over from Thailand we will be considered as having 'intentionally worsened our circumstances'!!!

    Totally true. Can you believe it?!

    So, from our experience, apply away - and good luck to you - but expect nothing.

  4. #4
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    The list of proscribed public funds does include "an allocation of local authority housing" and as most housing associations take their tenants off the local council waiting list then I guess this would count.

    However, it also says on that page
    If your leave is subject to a condition that you have "no recourse to public funds", then in most cases you won't be able to claim any of the benefits, tax credits or housing assistance that count as public funds. However, exceptions do apply to some benefits. If you are in any doubt about whether you are able to claim a particular fund, you should contact the department or agency that issues it.
    From my experience, it seems that if the local council is prepared to take you onto their list then that's ok. It was certainly the case with us. Woking council were prepared to put us on their waiting list, even though I made sure to explain that Noi and Poy didn't have ILR yet. We did eventually get a place, after being on the list for over 4 years! By which time not only did they have ILR, but British citizenship too.

    We could have got a place sooner, had my father been prepared to tell the council that he was going to evict us. My brother did that for his son, who got a flat very quickly. My father was not prepared to do this, though. He didn't want people to think that he was prepared to throw us out.

    A couple we know were living with his mother. She wrote a similar letter to the council and they did get a housing association flat, even though the wife, at the time, didn't have ILR.

    This, too, was Woking. Different authorities may have a different approach, so you should check with your local council.

  5. #5
    Veteran ผู้มีประสบการณ์ Marcus's Avatar
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    And, Nana, please let us know what happens.

    And good luck getting somewhere to live.

  6. #6
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    Hi Marcus,

    I didn't do any futher action to push myself with the housing association at that time. Gary and me were too worried about getting ILR. And good job I didn't apply for it.

    I got ILR on the 4th of July 2007. 31st of July 2007 I submitted HA application. On the 3rd of August they wrote back to me saying that I needed to send them my passport, I was worried about it will be lost so I walked in myself with Gary. The one who deal with my case wasn't in so I talked to other staff. She took my passport saying that she wanted to make a xerox copy, served me with the EVIL face, look at me from my head to toe and then disappear for 15 mins.

    Came back with the Evil face still asking for Gary's passport, I said he is british so she asked for the letter from Home Office because it looks like I against thier rule to apply for HA.

    I said no I am a residental permit now, with the ILR granted and point her on the page of ILR. Believe it or not, it looks like she didn't even know what is ILR.

    She disappeared again, came back and insisted she wanted Gary's passport, good job we had it with us so to shut her up I just handed it to her. Another 10 mins disappear, came back with other staff who is pretty but has even more EVIL face. The way she talked to me was not nice at all, to be honest since I've been here for more than 2 years I have never ever been treated like this before, the way she looked at me the way she spoke to me just make me want to punch into her face.

    She was talking stupid, trying to say I applied for the HA against the Home office rule, I said no I am out of the Imigration control with ILR granted. She said 'So? where is the letter then? I said what's letter, she said from the Home office. I said I got nothing at all from them what I got when they granted my ILR is this passport with the ILR page back together with all the documents I sent them but no letter nor note at all.

    But it was unbelievable she still insisted she wanted that letter, acting like that passport is fake. What a stupid ! Then my husband got involve he said if you DO really want that letter, we will write to Home Office asking them about that, then she said, oh it's no need to it's ok but start to talking about I appied for HA before I got ILR granted. What a stupid ! It was granted on the 4th of July, I submitted the form on the 31st of July. God! They remind me about Thailand last 10 years ago when you have to contact with the Government staff at Amphur.

    I don't know what's gonna happened to my application but I have not much hope now from the way they work, they haven't got a clue what are they doing but acting like they are the most cleverest people in the world, looked at me like I am an alien from the 3rd world country.

    We may have to looking for the private one too, just in case they reject with the stupid reason.

    Nana

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    Hi Nana,
    I'm sorry you had such a dreadful experience. It does seem familar though to the attitude I have experienced at housing offices even before my wife came here, so dont take too much offence - even us British get it !
    I posted a question about housing a while ago and was told that HA are not the same as 'public fund' ie council housing, so you would have been in your rights to apply long before now. The HA isn't the same as the council as they agree to provide only a percentage of their housing stock to people on the council register, so the others are available to anyone whatever their circumstances. As you were applying from your husbands mothers home then you should have been eligable.
    You weren't being treated as an alien, just looked down on because you and your family needed help - welcome to the UK


    Good Luck
    Rob
    Honour good men, be courteous to all men, bow down to none.

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    Hi Rob,

    Thanks for your encouragement

    You weren't being treated as an alien, just looked down on because you and your family needed help - welcome to the UK
    Anyway, I thought this HA been established because the purpose to HELP people, that's why we need help from them so they should have service mind and realise that they been there to help people.

    And without the people who need help, the HA won't be needed to be established and then that group of evil face won't be able to work there, they may unemployed now and need help like us.

    Well, I won't take it offence like you said otherwise it will destroy my happiness. Just want to share experience. My husband said they can't reject us because I am pregnant and have 2 years old son plus the M-I-L will write the letter to them as well that she will kick us out from her house soon.

    Nana

  9. #9
    Moderator John's Avatar
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    Nana, that is terrible! What an experience!

    If I were you I know exactly what I would do! I would write to the Chief Executive of the Housing Association relating about the incident, and suggesting that a bit of staff training appears to be needed!
    John

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    Nana-my guess is they saw "foreign = asylum seeker" and their training requires them to see the Home Office letter of status. They assumed every foreigner gets a Home Office letter.

    Perhaps if you have further contact with them,you mention to their manager that you have "identified a training need".

    Interesting to see what approach they would have adopted if you'd been,say,American.

    On the merits of your application-you seem to score well on all the points,perhaps if you had had an argument with the neighbours,especially if racially motivated,you'd get even more points!

  11. #11
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    Steve,

    Your not saying Nana should start calling the neighbours whitey are you

    Nana,

    Agree a shocking experience and should definately be followed up, you could add "in our hour of need" "desperate situation" "prospect of homelessness" "baby on the way" etc. As John says, if you directed it at the Chief Executive of the Housing Association it may well help your case. Seems to me a few of the people you deal with in those
    situations have a "power" complex and hope it is not the case with all the people you deal with.

    Good Luck.

  12. #12
    Premium Member caller's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nana:

    My husband said they can't reject us because I am pregnant and have 2 years old son plus the M-I-L will write the letter to them as well that she will kick us out from her house soon.

    Nana
    Let's play Devils Advocate.

    I assume your MIL supported your initial visa application by writing to say that she would take you in? Okay, your circumstances have changed, but is this real, or what could be construed as a fraudulent attempt to secure housing? If so, it will probably go in the file marked as "more tales of woe from pregnant women".

    Should this occur in my area, you would likely as not be offered B&B accommodation in the 1st instance as the Council will have some sort of responsibilty to intervene, or else you could end up in the same type of property as described by Roly elsewhere, rightly or wrongly.

    Two wrongs don't make a right.

    Originally posted by rolyshark:
    Interesting to see what approach they would have adopted if you'd been,say,American.

    On the merits of your application-you seem to score well on all the points,perhaps if you had had an argument with the neighbours,especially if racially motivated,you'd get even more points!
    Continuing......

    Not sure I understand the relevance to whether the HA's approach would have been different if approached by an American? I could suggest other nationalalities where that might be the case, depending on the area in the UK. Maybe some personal bias creeping out there? No complaints from me, I'm there already. But there aren't too many americans trying to rip off the UK social housing debacle.

    But then a lawyer advocating an applicant provide false information in the furtherance of their application for housing? Surely said with tongue firmly in cheek and all fingers and toe nails crossed?

    Take care, one of my team has just been appointed a "forensic investigator" (don't you just love these job titles) by the law society to investigate wrongdoing in the legal profession.

    I hope its more than window dressing? It should be at the salary they are offering!

    Anyway Nana, ignoring the above, I wish you well.
    'Tis me

  13. #13
    Moderator rolyshark's Avatar
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    But then a lawyer advocating an applicant provide false information in the furtherance of their application for housing?
    Where?

    Perhaps if I'd said-

    Historically,one of the factors in considering the allocation of social housing was the accumulation of "points". Attainment of a certain threshold of points would mean assistance from the social housing provider varying from provision of mere advice,to allocation of actual permanent housing. The points allocated would be dependant on the individual applicant's circumstances and those deemed in "priority need" as defined by statute would be allocated more points. Thus single parents,or those pregnant,homeless or threatened with homelessness receive more points than a single male. Additional points may also be allocated if the applicant has been the subject of domestic violence,is disabled or the victim of crime,included neighbour disputes.

    However,new leglislation may mean you effectively "bid" for properties on the open market and are given feedback on whether or not your bid has been successful and,if unsuccessful to the type of applicant who succeeded.

    Or even said-
    yes you've ticked boxes on priority need,are there any other social factors involved?

    However,I merely commented as above. As to advocating provision of false information-absolutely disgraceful.

    However,applicants are entitled to know their rights and not rely on the whim of a possibly mis-trained administrator as to what,if any assistance is given. They are entitled to know all the criteria and if they fit any or all of they I would expect them to say so. For example after the application is rejected to reapply later-oh I forgot to mention my neighbour is subject to an ASBO and I've got an injunction against him as he throws stones at me and calls me an internet whore on the street. To be told-you should have told us the first time,this is highly relevant.

  14. #14
    Moderator rolyshark's Avatar
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    Not sure I understand the relevance to whether the HA's approach would have been different if approached by an American?
    They would not have asked for a Home Office letter and not assumed asylum seeker.

  15. #15
    Premium Member caller's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rolyshark:
    But then a lawyer advocating an applicant provide false information in the furtherance of their application for housing?
    Where?

    As to advocating provision of false information-absolutely disgraceful.
    Sorry, I must have misunderstood this:

    Originally posted by rolyshark:

    On the merits of your application-you seem to score well on all the points,perhaps if you had had an argument with the neighbours,especially if racially motivated,you'd get even more points!
    Okay, its perhaps open to interpretation and I did say you must have had everything crossed and you have now clarified everything really clearly!

    I feel like I'm turning into Nick!
    'Tis me

  16. #16
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    I feel like I'm turning into Nick!
    Don't
    If you're offended by any assistance I give, it says far more about you than it does me.

  17. #17
    Veteran ผู้มีประสบการณ์ Marcus's Avatar
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    Hi Nana,

    Thank you so much for posting your update here, it's very interesting and useful - thank you. And good luck with the application, it is in now, isn't it?

    And well done on keeping your cool in that office! It's a good job you didn't punch anyone!

    I sometimes felt the same in Thailand when I was trying to get something for my work permit! So I learn from Thai people - keep cool and smile!

    I think Caller has made a good point - please don't tell any lies on your application! I'm sure you won't, but if you did say the M-I-L is threatening to kick you out, it could cause problems in the future if it's not true.

    And if you said you had problems with your neighbours, you'd have to collect evidence etc and I think making false allegations against people you live next door to is not a good idea!

    So, keep smiling, keep it truthful, and I wish you lot of luck getting a nice place to live.

    All the best to you, Gary, your son, and the little one on the way!



    Marcus



    Note to forum regulars: Yes, I know I'm in self-imposed exile at the moment, but I was directly addressed in this thread and it'd be rude not to respond.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by Nana:
    Hi Rob,

    Thanks for your encouragement

    You weren't being treated as an alien, just looked down on because you and your family needed help - welcome to the UK
    Anyway, I thought this HA been established because the purpose to HELP people, that's why we need help from them so they should have service mind and realise that they been there to help people.

    And without the people who need help, the HA won't be needed to be established and then that group of evil face won't be able to work there, they may unemployed now and need help like us.

    Well, I won't take it offence like you said otherwise it will destroy my happiness. Just want to share experience. My husband said they can't reject us because I am pregnant and have 2 years old son plus the M-I-L will write the letter to them as well that she will kick us out from her house soon.

    Nana
    Hi Nana you are lucky to live in such a beautiful area but unlucky that its so expensive to get into the housing market. Without telling any lies its a good idea to go through your situation and see how you can make a good case. Your situation has changed, with the new baby on the way, and its entirley possible that what was suitable for you once is no longer suitable. Also the new baby may put a lot of stress on your relationship with your MIL. Perhaps its worth looking at that. If your MIL does give you notice to quit perhaps that would be reluctantly but neccessary. Everyone else trying for HA house will be looking to make as good a case as they can too. Good luck for the future.

  19. #19
    Moderator rolyshark's Avatar
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    I feel like I'm turning into Nick!
    You wanting a "holiday" as well?

    Btw-I suspect some ought to read my initial post more carefully. It says "had had". This is not a typo-one "had" might read as if I was encouraging something,I was only pointing out something that already existed. Past perfect tense I believe,but no doubt the English teachers will correct me.

  20. #20
    Orangesoup
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    Hi Nana,

    When you were given ILR your status changed. It is not relevant anymore what your M-I-L or anyone stated in support of getting you in to the UK. That is all in the past.

    If your M-I-L supplies you with a letter saying you have to leave her home then legally, you and your family are defined as Homeless. You do not at this stage actually have left your M-I-L's home just threaten with eviction

    The next qusetion are you defined as "vulnerable"? I think you would be because you have dependants (children). But I would take expert advice on this.

    You have to approach your Local Authority Housing Department and present yourself as Homeless. I would take advice from organistions like Shelter before doing this.

    Do you or anyone in your family have medical or social needs? If you can get a (strongly written) letter from a Doctor/health visitor to support your case then you will get even more points/priority. (I would advise to read any supporting letter before authorising the writer to send it on, you might want something altered)

    Also some LA's have a catagory defined as "Homeless at Home" or equivalent . This catagory are rewarded with higher priory. You are not costing the Council money to house you. Enquire with the Houseing Department if they have this catagory.

    I would not bother writting a letter of complaint. Most HA complaint procedures are just whitewash and nothing productive will result.

    All HA's have to take a (often large) percentage of new tentants from the LA waiting list so you must get on your LA'a waiting list. If you are judged as "vulnerable" you will get more points. The more points/need you have you can also apply with other Local Authorities and HA.

    In my case I was only rehoused because I had a chance encounter with the Tentant's Rep of my HA who put us forward for a flat had been empty for months but the HA staff never offered. My advice find out which Tentants are on the board/committee of the HA and became friendly with him ot her.

    I do not understand why others are saying you would be giving false information. It appears clear to me your current housing situation is untenable. You have ILR and therefore has the same access to resources in the UK as any EU citizen.

    You owe it your children to provide them with the best environment for them to grow and develope. The Authorities have an obligation to allow this to happen. I take it your children are British citizens.

    My over-riding advice at this point is get advice from Shelter. Once you have proper advice and maybe even an Advocate to aid you and your husband approach the Housing Department of your LA as Homeless (at Home) and see what happens. And yes they will have to see both your passports.

    Unfortunately your LA will initially will try to put you off but you have to persevere. Eventually if you qualify they will become helpful.

    As to the EVIL HA lady forget her.

    Chock Dee

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