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  1. #21
    Old Hand มือเก่า Conrad's Avatar
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    I was informed today that people who opt for voluntary redundancy will be treated in an identical manner as those made compulsory redundant as far as their claim for JSA is concerned. What this means is that you can make a claim for JSA as soon as you finish work.

    To be eligible for JSA you must (amongst other rules)
    *Be available for work,
    *Be actively seeking work,
    *Be habitually resident in the UK,
    *Not have a restricted immigration status
    If your wife meets these criteria it might be possible for you to make a joint claim for JSA.

    With my professional hat on I would suggest that you do indeed attempt to make a joint claim as if you're not eligible you will be advised to make a single persons claim. If you attempt to make a single claim you might not be advised to make a joint claim.
    With my personal hat on I am slightly concerned that you're already considering a period of time claiming benefits, are you currently looking for alternative positions outside the NHS ? Have you discussed any training possibilities with your current employer ? what transferable skills do you have that would make you attractive to a prospective employer ?

  2. #22
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary & Nok View Post
    Why is it wrong?
    I haven't got time to deal with everything as i am preparing to fly to Amsterdam.

    The first problem I see is that you mistakenly believe the government will make a redundancy payment. You also state that an employer has a discretion whether or not to make a redundancy payment if an employee is made redundant. Both these are wrong.

    An employer is obliged to make a redundancy payment to all employees who have worked for that employer for a minimum of 2 years. The minimum amount of redundancy pay is set by law. An employer is allowed to pay more than the statutory minimum but it is not allowed to pay less.

    The only time the government will pay redundancy pay (for non-government employees) is when an employer goes bust.
    Tobias - โทเบียส
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  3. #23
    Moderator John's Avatar
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    With my professional hat on I would suggest that you do indeed attempt to make a joint claim as if you're not eligible you will be advised to make a single persons claim.
    Is the wife actually looking for work? That is, is she job-seeking?

    Even if she is a little care needs to be taken here. The point is that whilst contribution-based JSA is being claimed it is OK to get an addition for the wife, but once .... and let's hope we don't get that far, and employment is found before then ..... we get to the maximum of 6 months for contribution-based JSA .... and we move to income-based JSA, we need to make sure that the wife is not included in a claim, and indeed the husband gets no addition for his wife. Otherwise the terms of para 6A of the Immigration Rules would be breached.
    John

  4. #24
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    Conrad, a question - sort of related to this if you don't mind (it appears you work in some sort of government agency?).

    Due to the recession I lost my job a few months ago, I'm working again now so the problem is over. However, whilst I was unemployed, I couldn't claim JSA as I hadn't kept my NI contributions up to date. I also couldn't claim income support as I own more than one house. Is the presumtion behind that, that I am expected to sell a property to support myself? I couldn't sell the other house even if I could have found an immediate buyer as its tenanted and on a lease. The lease brings in no more in rent than the mortgage I have on the property.

    I'm no scrounger and would have gladly sold a property and supported myself but in this market - no chance. In any case, even if I did sell a property, it takes months to get the money. What do they expect you to do?

    I had a similar problem a few years ago when I hurt my back quite seriously and couldn't work - I couldn't claim income support because I owned a plot of land. The land is where I was going to build a house for myself (which is now built and is where I now live) and I had no other property. I felt that it was grossly unfair that if I'd actually built the house, I could have claimed income support but as I hadn't, I couldn't. I was in no better position than anyone who owned a house of similar value to my plot yet I couldn't claim and they could.

    I feel very vulnerable after losing my job and as it seems, the welfare state I thought would support me in a time of need, won't. Is there a set time after which, as long as I've been paying my NI conrtibutions, I will once again qualify for JSA? There have been several periods in my life where I haven't paid NI - time abroad, mature student, buidling my own house etc. Do I have to bring my contributions for all those times up to date before I can make a claim?

    I may not have kept my NI contributions up to date but I've probably paid more income tax than most over my working life. As far as I'm concerned, NI and income tax are the same, they all go to the government and the government use them to run the country.

  5. #25
    Premium Member KhunIanB-UK's Avatar
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    "the welfare state I thought would support me in a time of need, won't" I have had the same experience, even still have a cheque for 1p as a momento of the one time I was unemployed, luckily very short lived. Good luck to anyone falling into the trap.

  6. #26
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    I have made some small corrections to my previous post were I had inadvertently indicated that the Government ACTUALLY paid you redundancy. The Government indicate what the company must give you as a minimum.



    An employer may pay, at their discretion, any redundancy payment they wish to or indeed are under no obligation to pay any at all (except for the government minimum).

    The company must pay that as indicated on the site I mentioned and it is a great tool for working out what the minimum is you will get.

    I was recently given notice of redundancy. Within my department of 3, 1 was to go. The company gave us our figures of what we would get if you were the unlucky one.
    The company were offering to match the government minimum of 1 week for each (full) year of employment as well as a one off payment of 6 months pay and also a 3 month payment in lieu of notice. Which is quite a generous payout in these times.
    This was on top of the government minimum.

    With the government indicated payment, depending on your age at redundancy the 1 week payment can rise to 1.5 weeks. There is a table of age against weeks somewhere, I shall try to find it. Although as said the tool is perfect to find out your figures.

    Just reading your post again caller, I notice you say they are going to give you one week of your actual salary. That is generous, in all my times the company have only ever offered to match the government minimum payout which is a weeks salary but capped at £380/week.



    Hopefully this goes someway to correcting any confusion I might have caused
    Bye Bye EU Day 31st December 2020 (11 p.m.)

  7. #27
    Member สมาชิก
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad View Post
    I was informed today that people who opt for voluntary redundancy will be treated in an identical manner as those made compulsory redundant as far as their claim for JSA is concerned. What this means is that you can make a claim for JSA as soon as you finish work.

    To be eligible for JSA you must (amongst other rules)
    *Be available for work,
    *Be actively seeking work,
    *Be habitually resident in the UK,
    *Not have a restricted immigration status
    If your wife meets these criteria it might be possible for you to make a joint claim for JSA.

    With my professional hat on I would suggest that you do indeed attempt to make a joint claim as if you're not eligible you will be advised to make a single persons claim. If you attempt to make a single claim you might not be advised to make a joint claim.
    With my personal hat on I am slightly concerned that you're already considering a period of time claiming benefits, are you currently looking for alternative positions outside the NHS ? Have you discussed any training possibilities with your current employer ? what transferable skills do you have that would make you attractive to a prospective employer ?
    Thanks for your reply Conrad.

    The crazy thing about this situation is that my job, will still be required.

    But..............

    Not under government control,

    i am hoping that my skills and expertise and experience
    will be required, WHEN the new GP consortia is created - so hopefully I wont be unemployed for too long.

    Thanks guys for your great advice.

  8. #28
    Old Hand มือเก่า Conrad's Avatar
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    Weaver93
    Best case scenario would be to be offered a juicy redundancy payout and shortly after be back in employment on a similar package to your existing one. If that's the case we'll all form a queue at the bar to share in your success.

    The following is quite boring so readers (except Flip) may wish to ignore it
    Flip,
    Many self employed people do not realise that as they don't pay class 1 NI contributions they are not eligible for JSA(C), they might be eligible for JSA(IB) however as that benefit is means tested not everyone will receive it.
    If they receive neither JSA(C) or(IB) they should continue to sign on for NI credits. Be aware that to qualify for a full state pension 30 years NI contributions must have been paid.
    It would appear in your situation that the rent that you received for your second property was considered income which negated your claim for JSA(IB). Unfortunately outgoings (mortgage on 2nd property in your case) are not taken into consideration so you were left in the situation of no income for a period of time. Income support is also means tested so you would not qualify for that benefit for the same reason that you did not qualify for JSA(IB).

    To be eligible for JSA(C) you must have paid sufficient NI contributions for the previous two tax years so in answer to your question Flip, after being employed for two full tax years you will be eligible for JSA(C) if you were unlucky enough to lose your job.

    I don't necessarily agree with the rules but am just trying to explain what happened in your situation.

  9. #29
    Guest Flip's Avatar
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    Thanks for that Conrad, much appreciated. You say I would be eligible to claim JSA (C) after paying sufficient NI contributions for 2 tax years and you mention 'employed' - can I take it that that also means 'self employed'?

    Also I don't really understand JSA (C), (IB) etc. - which is normal dole as it used to be called?

  10. #30
    Old Hand มือเก่า Conrad's Avatar
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    Flip
    Self employed - no, as you would not have paid class 1 national insurance contributions

    JSA (C) - contributions based JSA - paid for up to 6 months if you have paid sufficient NI contributions (class 1 NI contributions see above) for the previous two tax years.

    JSA (IB) - Income based JSA -savings and income taken into consideration.

    JSA replaced unemployment benefit (often called the dole) a number of years ago however does not exactly replicate it so the answer to your final question is neither.

  11. #31
    Guest Flip's Avatar
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    Thanks Conrad,

    So it seems that as long as I own more than one property, (putting aside state pension issues) other than moral responsibility, there is no benefit to me in bringing my NI contributions up to date.

    A lot of 'employed' people think that self employed people get away with murder as Class 2 NI contibutions are only £2.40 per week. What they fail to realise is that we also have to pay Class 4 NI at the rate of 8% of any profits over £5175 and up to £43,875 and 1% of anything above that upper limit.

    On many occasions we actually pay more than an 'employed' person but fail to qualify for the same benefits.

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