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  1. #1
    Guest Flip's Avatar
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    Default Flooding in Pakistan

    Clearly this is not Thai related but I wondered what others think of some sort of fund raising effort to help the millions suffering in Pakistan as a result of the recent floods?

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    Banned peterinkendal's Avatar
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    Now I know that the population of Pakistan have nothing to do with terrorism, but their government has a record of protecting and nurturing terroists.
    I think this is the main reason why donations are not as high as they could be and is the reason why I will not be donating.

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    Guest Flip's Avatar
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    You are of course, free to make your own choices Peter but people are dying.

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    Banned peterinkendal's Avatar
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    well several thousand people have been killed at the hands of pakistani trained terrorists....get them to start donating funds instead of blowing up our planes.

    I do feel sorry for the victims, but I believe my views are supported by the majority of the UK

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    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    I suspect Peter you may be right about why some people are more reluctant to donate to this terrible tragedy. It might also have to do with the fact that there is less money about in people's pockets generally.
    Tobias - โทเบียส

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    What goes on in Pakistan in relation to the support of terrorism or otherwise is not in dispute. I make no distinction about who I choose to help. I would assist the child of a terrorist or a farmer and I hope that most British people are generous and caring. I'm broke at the moment but I have clean water in my taps and don't need to worry about cholera so I will be sending what I can because I cannot stand by and watch my fellow man die whilst I am able to assist in preventing that.

    Peter, there have been several comments in the news and elsewhere that support your views but I suspect the reluctance of people to help the Pakistanis has more to do with racism than the support of terrorists (I'm am not suggesting your reluctance is racially motivated by the way). I think though Peter, that to suggest that your views are 'supported by the majority of the UK' is a huge claim to make'.

    Perhaps when clean water and supplies are made available to the people of Pakistan, those in the queue should be interrogated before being allowed access in order to establish if they have conections to terrorism or not?

  7. #7
    Veteran ผู้มีประสบการณ์ Marcus's Avatar
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    Britain and America is sending many millions of dollars (much more than the oil-rich arab states are sending) and so all British tax-payers are already helping out in Pakistan, which is a very good thing for all the unfortunate people who will be helped by this money.

    But I do think it'd be better if Pakistan didn't allow Islamic Jihadist groups to also operate in the relief of this disaster (see link below), if Pakistan didn't support terrorism (see link below), if Pakistan didn't persecute its Christian minority, and if Pakistan didn't spend so much money on nuclear weapons rather than on helping its poor and combatting the Jihadists.

    I think, because of these legitimate concerns, as well as the state of the economy, people might think twice about donating money. But, given the amounts provided by the government, the British people are already being extrordinarily generous. I also think that, given that generosity, it is perfectly acceptable if Britian would ask for something, such as sterner action against terrorism or a defusion of nuclear tension, in return.

    Link 1: Terror groups allowed to provide aid
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-Pakistan.html

    Link 2: "the Pakistani intelligence agency is the most important accomplice the Taliban has outside of Afghanistan" http://www.spiegel.de/international/...8314-5,00.html

  8. #8
    Banned peterinkendal's Avatar
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    Sorry, I feel very strongly about this. If it were up to me I would be bringing the same pressure to bear on present day Pakistan as was brought (quite rightly) onto Apartheid South Africa.

    That would mean a complete ban on all imports from Pakistan. I would close their embassy and not allow any immigration from there, meaning I would cancel all visas past, present and future of all Pakistani nationals.

    This is not in the least bit racsit, the Indian, Bangledeshi, Sri Lankan immigrants are still very welcome in the UK.

    We are supposed to be at war against terrorism. They must be made to realise that the world will not tolerate the nurturing of terrorists of any persuasion. They must be no hiding places, no training camps for these people the world over.

    If I were to harbour a criminal then I would surely be punished, so too should the Pakistani Government.

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    Peter, I don't doubt that you feel strongly about this - there is room in the Off Topic or Departure Lounge forums for you to air your views.

    I did not invite a debate about the why's and wherefore's of the politics of Pakistan or its support for terrorism. The time for discussing that is not now - people are dying as we are writing. I am asking what others think about Thailand-UK making some sort of donation.
    Last edited by Flip; 14th Aug 2010 at 14:27.

  10. #10
    Veteran ผู้มีประสบการณ์ Marcus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip View Post
    Peter, I don't doubt that you feel strongly about this - there is room in the Off Topic or Departure Lounge forums for you to air your views..
    Flip, you can't have this both ways you know. You can't tell Peter to restrict his views to the Departure Lounge and then go on to present your own views on this thread.

    But, while we are at it, "for the record", you are right in that Jihadist groups are being allowed to benefit from this disaster - see the link I already provided - and that is just one of many many reasons why I think that any charity relief provided to this country must come with firm political strings. And that is very relevant to the topic of this thread.

  11. #11
    Guest Flip's Avatar
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    Quite correct Marcus, I will edit my post - time allowing.

    Done.

  12. #12
    Veteran ผู้มีประสบการณ์ Marcus's Avatar
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    Cheers Flip, and I think you are quite right to help prevent this becoming a huge argument. Having said that, and having already aired my concerns, I will also not make any further contributions to this thread. Good luck with any charity efforts you undertake.

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    Banned peterinkendal's Avatar
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    Ah well, if we are not allowed to debate the wisdom of denoting then I guess this thread will just gently pass away.....how boring. Huge arguments, using Marcus' definition is what keeps this or any other forum alive and interesting.

    Ah well, back to congratulating members for successful visa applications.

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    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ stevem's Avatar
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    I understand where flip is coming from,but where does it end.

    How about donating to china,and the dozens of other countrys where people are dying as we speak.

    How about the mae tao clinic that was on tv last night? The list just goes on.

    Believe what i say or not, your choice, but it cuts me up real bad,to the point i cant sleep at night.

    Im struggling myself right now with cash,i give more than half of my income to my partner,and daughter in LOS.

    So if and when i get any spare money, im afraid that they will get that as well.

    they are my number one concern,right now.

  15. #15
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    Sorry Flip, I applaud you for starting the thread but I am afraid that I too would not wish to donate to this country/cause.
    Also I am of the same mind as Stevem, and even more so under the present circumstances my family have found themselves in.

  16. #16
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    It's an interesting one, isn't it? Donate or not?

    Interesting report the other day about corruption and illegal deforestation linked to all of this. India have offered and given nowt. Peanuts raised from the Countries that I would have thought would have been natural allies and offered support and yet once again, I am being asked to donate.....

    I think that currently, Pakistan must be one of the most despised Countries on this earth.

    And yet without doubt, truly innocent men, women and children are suffering, but they have for years and the powers that be within that land clearly have never cared, maybe that's the message that's coming across.

    Still, as ever, the Americans are in there with practical support.

  17. #17
    Premium Member Gary & Nok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caller View Post
    Still, as ever, the Americans are in their with practical support.
    Is there oil in Pakistan then

  18. #18
    Premium Member caller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary & Nok View Post
    Is there oil in Pakistan then
    No, nuclear power, corrupt Govt, corrupt security services, islamist 'charities' and the Taliban.

    Everyone else talks.

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    Mods, I find the last comment by michael001 absolutely disgusting and abhorrent. I trust you will see what I mean and remove it.

  20. #20
    Premium Member -Keith-'s Avatar
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    I totally agree with you Flip.
    If you're offended by any assistance I give, it says far more about you than it does me.

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