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  1. #1
    RSS Feed Bot T-UK's Avatar
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    RSS Feed New English language testing for partners

    The UK Border Agency has today published a list of approved providers of English language tests for non-European migrants applying to come to the UK to join or marry their settled partner.

    Read full article ...

    (This thread was generated automatically by Thailand-UK.com from the UKBA Residency RSS Feed)

  2. #2
    Banned peterinkendal's Avatar
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    On 26 July, we announced that English language tests will be compulsory for these migrants from 29 November 2010.
    From that date, any migrant who wants to enter or remain in the UK as the partner of a British citizen or a person settled here will need to show that they can speak and understand English, by taking an English language test
    any(all) migrants, including those with ILR.....or just FLR/SV?

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    I think you can take it as read that the ruling will only affect those entering for the first time after 29th November Peter. I really don't see how they could prevent someone who is already settled here but has been out of the country on holiday for example, from re-entering - FLR, ILR or otherwise. Admittedly the announcement is poorly worded but it does go on to talk about applicants.

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    'Partners who apply for settlement after completing their two-year period of temporary residence will still need to meet the 'knowledge of language and life in the UK' test. This is in addition to the new basic English language requirement, which forms part of their initial application'

    http://www.thailand-uk.com/forums/sh...g-for-partners



  5. #5
    Banned peterinkendal's Avatar
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    I hope you are right

    but 'to enter or remain' would suggest that you could not remain without passing this new hurdle

  6. #6
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    INITIAL APPLICATION

    As I've already said, today's announcment is badly worded and so are the previous ones which are linked in today's.

    Don't forget, there are circumstances where a person can make an initial application to settle in the UK when they are already here.

  7. #7
    Banned peterinkendal's Avatar
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    true.

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    To be fair, I'm 99% certain that I'm correct on this but I'll wait to see what John has to say.

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    Banned peterinkendal's Avatar
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    Just read it through carefully, it really is not terribly clear, but from what I can understand is that anyone applying for their first 2 year Settlement Visa will need to pass an English Test, those already on the 2 year settlement visa will need to pass this english test before getting ILR......It does not seem clear what to do with those who fail the test (or the LITUK test) will they be entitled to apply for FLR as now? surely they would? but the following quote would suggest otherwise

    From that date, any migrant who wants to enter or remain in the UK as the partner of a British citizen or a person settled here will need to show that they can speak and understand English, by taking an English language test with one of our approved test providers.
    based on that how can a spouse who has not attained the appropriate level in English apply for Further Leave to Remain?

    Please don't make this thread adverseral, I think we are both trying to understand it and I am not suggesting that what I say is correct just opening it for discussion

  10. #10
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    Flip, I've not seen the actual wording of the rule, but I concur with your premise. I have a busy few days ahead, but I will see if I can locate the text of the actual rule and report back.
    Tobias - โทเบียส
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  11. #11
    Guest Flip's Avatar
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    I still refer to the final paragrah specifically - initial application. If that is correct, it would dispense with the problem you foresee above Peter.

    I believe its the first few paragraphs that are badly worded. If this requirement was applicable to those already here on FLR as the spouse of a UK citizen or someone already settled here then the problems you mention would crop up and that is unworkable.

    I believe the reference to remain is applicable to the few that are already here, married but have yet to make their initial application for settlement. All will come out in the fullness of time.

    ---------- Post added at 23:32 ---------- Previous post was at 23:25 ----------

    I don't know what the fault is but I've only just noticed that the Home Office link I provided is actually a link to a T-UK thread - that's not what I copied and pasted.

    This is the correct one:

    http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...sh-requirement

  12. #12
    R.I.P. ddwjg's Avatar
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    Flip, and your last link is to the first post on this thread. Seems to be going round in circles.

    Dave.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular สมาชิกประจำ sumrit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip View Post
    I believe the reference to remain is applicable to the few that are already here, married but have yet to make their initial application for settlement. All will come out in the fullness of time.
    I agree with your interpretation Flip. If somebody who came to the UK, on a work or student visa for example, then married whilst in the UK, their initial settlement application would be to remain in the UK. This would make sense of the ' enter or remain in the UK' wording and wouldn't affect anyone already in the UK on a settlement visa who might want to apply for FLR.

    If Peter's concerns were correct I think the working would have read 'enter and remain,.

  14. #14
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    Dave, the link provided in the first post of this thread is to an announcement made by the UKBA on 16th August. If you look closely you will see that the link I provided in post No.11 is an announcement made by the UKBA on 9th June. I'm not going round in circles at all.

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    R.I.P. ddwjg's Avatar
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    Flip. sorry I just quickly scanned it and it seemed to be the same content. Apologies . Didn't notice the date.

    Dave.

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    Would this mean that if you were settled and integrated into life in Thailand, married, with children and had to return home (to the UK) because (for example) your contract finished, that you could bring your children but your wife would have to remain in Thailand until she could speak English to a certain standard ? I am glad my wife is already here - her English improved rapidly when immersed in the culture and she is now fluent - the best way to learn a language ! Still I have friends with high quality Polish Nannies who could look after the kids until the wife passes her English tests. Tobias - legal view please ?

  17. #17
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    I take it that in the scenario you refer to the children either hold or be entitled to hold a UK passport? In that case, the answer is yes, they would be able to come to the UK without having to pass this or any other language test. Any partner applying for a settlement visa after 28th November will have to satisfy the requirements of this new ruling.

    Your post has raised an interesting point though, it seem for the moment that any children that are not entitled to a UK passport and wish to settle in the UK are not covered by this ruling as it only affects partners as far as I can see.

    So, for example, a Thai wife with 2 (Thai) children who applies for a settlement visa to live in the UK with her English husband and wishes to bring her children with her, would have to pass the new test, whereas the children would not.

  18. #18
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srisom View Post
    Would this mean that if you were settled and integrated into life in Thailand, married, with children and had to return home (to the UK) ... you could bring your children but your wife would have to remain in Thailand until she could speak English to a certain standard ? ...
    It certainly looks that way! I've not yet seen the actual text of the rule so I cannot say for sure. I'll try to find it in the next few days to see the extent of the provisions. I suspect you are correct.

    A paragraph in Flip's link caught my eye:

    "Partners who apply for settlement after completing their two-year period of temporary residence will still need to meet the 'knowledge of language and life in the UK' test. This is in addition to the new basic English language requirement, which forms part of their initial application"

    Is the 'knowledge of language and life in the UK' test going to become compulsory? I suppose if an applicant has to pass a language test before gaining the visa the 'ESOL in a Citizenship Context' course becomes rather redundant?
    Tobias - โทเบียส
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  19. #19
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    Yes Flip - the children hold both passports and (like their mother) speak only Thai/Isaan. A friend of mine who is a fluent Spanish speaker and has married and settled in Peru will be in the same position should he return - neither his wife or kids speak English. I guess if visas expire then the family is split until the English requirement is met. Rather than integrating abroad perhaps we should go back to speaking English loudly :-)

  20. #20
    Moderator Tobias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flip View Post
    ... Your post has raised an interesting point though ... a Thai wife with 2 (Thai) children who applies for a settlement visa to live in the UK with her English husband and wishes to bring her children with her, would have to pass the new test, whereas the children would not.
    That sounds right, even now a child would not need to pass the 'knowledge of language and life in the UK' test for ILR/Naturalisation.
    Tobias - โทเบียส
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